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Stories That Change Us
A lively discussion between four friends and authors as they breakdown the most popular fiction from the last century. Join us as we identify the key aspects of storytelling, character development, and social analysis that have caused these stories to resonate through the decades and, in doing so, help novice and seasoned writers craft bestselling fiction of their own.
Stories That Change Us
Episode 7: A Long Fatal Love Chase by Louisa May Alcott
Dark, thrilling, and prescriptively moral are not words often used to describe the work of Louisa May Alcott, but the 19th century novelist was hiding more up her sleeve than simply a pen and a copy of Little Women. A Long Fatal Love Chase is one of Alcott's first novels and, while not vastly popular during her time, took the world by storm in the late 90s and highlights her impeccable use of melodrama, textured villains, and even cliche characters to deliver a high impact story with a haunting conclusion.
Moderated By: Kat Lewis
Question: what is a story that has changed your life?
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Welcome everyone to the seventh episode of the Stories That Change Us podcast. My name is Kat Lewis and I am here with some of my lovely writer friends, Michael Leydorf, Melissa Grace and Laurel Thomas. And this week as we are recovering from all things, holidays and super bowl, we decided to decompress with one of Louisa May Alcott's lesser known novels, but still quite engaging and enthralling, A Long Fatal Love Chase. This is a, one of Louisa May Alcott's, um, lesser known works. And I think it's tragic because this book is so good. I grew up with this novel. This novel was a staple in the Lewis household. I, as we get into it, I don't know if that's going to be a pro or a con. We'll see. But what about just reactions across the room? Like, Had anybody else read this book before or was this like a brand new journey for the group?
Laurel Thomas:Well, my name is Laurel and I, so I knew that Kat had read this book when she was a young Kat. And so I love that. I loved the, that picture as I was reading, imagining our spirited friend, And how much like Rosamund she was and all of the Gothic romance stuff, you know, it was just, to me, it was a blast. And I could imagine that Louisa May Alcott said, you know what, I'm just going to go for the weekend, have a good time and write a novel.
Kat Lewis:With all the things, all the things, all the danger in the romance,
Laurel Thomas:and she did.
Kat Lewis:That's awesome.
Micah Leydorf:Well, this is Micah Leydorf, and no, I had never heard of this novel by such a famous author. We've heard so much about Little Women. We've had umpteen film adaptations. You know, everybody read it in elementary school, and yet, we've never heard of Little Women. This one. So I was intrigued that you, Kat, said how it was your favorite, and like Laurel said, it was, you know, a little bit of window into your soul. That said, when I read it, um, you know, since this is a show about these classics for authors, I did find myself thinking, oh, okay. Okay. This is, you know, very obviously maybe her first novel, you know, versus like then, you know, her skills and her craft, as Laurel likes to say, grew over the years. And so I feel like there's a reason why the characters of Little Women are so real to us that we talk about them like they're regular people and they stick with us. And why. We read this, um, about a month ago because we got delayed because of the ice storm from talking about it. And we're like, what were those characters names again? Like, that's how I was. So I feel like there's a reason why, um, you know, Little Women is so enduring. And, and why this novel, while fun to read, especially because it gives us, you know, a window into our friend. Um, But it wasn't the critically acclaimed novel or the success that Little Women was. I think there's some lessons to be learned from that as we discuss.
Melissa Grace:Well, this is Melissa Grace. I agree that it lacked maybe some polish, but I have to say that I read the very first page and my first thought was the melodrama of the melodrama. And then my second thought was, When can I read again? You know, it was like, I wanted, she hooked me into this world and I wanted to come back to this world until I knew how the story ended. So even though it wasn't, you know, even though there was some melodrama and that it's interesting because, you know, as a writer, the first time I did, you know, wrote my first manuscript, I went back and looked at it and went, Oh, the melodrama. So I understood. A
Kat Lewis:little backstory on where A Long Fatal Love Chase falls in Louisa May Alcott's writing career. So she had written, um, kind of these Y a sweet letters. Um, I think it's, uh, flowers in bloom or rose in bloom. It was like a collection of poets. Fun fact about Louisa May Alcott. She was Waldo Emerson's nanny for his daughter. And so she wrote a lot of her YA stuff for his daughter just to keep her occupied. Okay. And when Waldo Emerson realized, this person has talent. He actually requested a juicy, spicy. novel, right? And he was like, I need it to be, he had some kind of specific qualifications. It needs to be a thriller. It needs to be 24 chapters. Every second chapter needs to end on a cliffhanger. So the audience keeps returning and Louisa May Alcott produces this novel, this dark, thrilling, stalker romance, right? And, uh, turns it in and he basically says, Yeah, you went a little too far. That's a little too much.
Laurel Thomas:I don't know. How unlike Twilight is it
Kat Lewis:really? You know, um, and so she wrote this novel in 1966. She wrote Little Women directly after, I'm sorry, 1866. Thank you. Louisa May Alcott wrote this novel in 1866 and she proceeded to write Little Women two years later, I guess when she thought, when the palates of the audience changes, I'll just. whip A Long Fatal Love Chase back out again. So she actually tucked it away and died with it unpublished. And it got mislabeled by some British archivists, as a different story, they didn't rediscover this novel until, until 1995 and it was republished in 95. And when it was republished, it was on fire. It was absolutely on fire. People were like, this is a Louisa May Alcott I've never seen before. But, I would compare this novel to Jane Eyre in some ways, um, just with like that dark Gothic romance. And I think she tugged on the strings of some other more popular gothic romances and she did everything in this novel, which probably why it feels like, why it feels a little melodramatic, but I loved it. I loved it.
Melissa Grace:Um, like I said, I couldn't get away from it. I had to come back and finish it.
Micah Leydorf:Yeah, I think I was, I was looking at a little bit of research about it. There's like the term potboiler, which I wasn't actually familiar with that, but it's a gothic thriller. Yeah. Potboiler. And that is the idea of, you know, like keeping people in suspense, which of course is much more modern now. Right. Then it was, then, you know, you think about, um, you know, Jane Austen and it's like, that's a slow burn, not exactly, exactly.
Kat Lewis:And slow burn women's fiction around like the mundane feminine. experience versus, you know, swashbuckling, swashbuckling, all the things. Okay. So to that end, I, again, I think it's really fun that like, you guys are not familiar with this novel at all. What was a quote that stood out to you guys as an excellent example of tension, author's voice, or character development? And you guys know the drill with Stories That Change Us. We do our four questions and a character roulette. So this is question number one to kind of get our writer brains thinking about what this author executed really well. Maybe where they fell down and how there's application for a modern audience.
Micah Leydorf:So I kind of broke the rules, but I guess that's sometimes allowed to do that. So again, like I, I can see the appeal of this, but you know, I can say what stood out to me just a little bit more were more of the, the idiosyncrasies of, you know, again, of like a writer before she's kind of really hit her groove. So like some of the quotes that I just thought were funny almost, like, so for instance, um, Uh, like this naive belief and kind of unabashed pride in English superiority. Like, did you guys catch that? Like one of them, I'm looking, it's like,"if you knock an Englishman down in a fair fight, he will respect you ever afterward". Like that wasn't it? Yeah. You know, it was like, Oh, like Englishmen are just so honorable. And then another one was kind of the more hilarious. Just even the physical attributes. This was with"the perfect outlines of neck and shoulder, which one only sees in England". Oh! Wow! Okay! Okay! Um, but again, I, I read it as like, okay, this is this naive young girl who this is the way she views the world. And actually, I, when I was reading it, I could see Joe. In her Garrett, like, you know, she was working on her novel, you know, that Amy later burned. And I was like, this is Joe's novel. Joe is up in that Garrett writing this novel. She was writing the Gothic thriller and she loved it. And she loved her characters, but she was just a girl then. And, you know, with all of her little idealistic, naive ideas about romance and life and the way it goes and dreaming about adventures that she'd never had. Versus like whenever she wrote Little Women where it's like, okay, this rings true because this was her life. And they always say, you know, write what you know. And that's what, again, so again, that those were the things that just kind of stood out to me. The little quotes are just kind of like, Oh, it's, it's funny.
Kat Lewis:No, I, I think we'll, we're going to find a lot of similarities between Joe's writing journey that we see in little women and like elements that are pulled on in this novel, because This novel represents all the things that went unpublished in Joe's early writing career that like drove her crazy, right? Everybody was like, that's too much. That's too dramatic. That's not realistic. And I can, I'm sensing, you know, tendrils of that same belief in what you're saying, Micah. So what else, what other, what other quotes stood out to us?
Laurel Thomas:I thought it was interesting how the whole seduction begins in a, uh, I don't have this specific quote, but she's saying, I wish I had all the pleasure I could ever have. She said, my life is, had such little pleasure and I'm willing to find out what a life that just filled with pleasure would be like. And he, he says some interesting things. He says, well, would you want that pleasure at expense of honesty? Or honor.
Micah Leydorf:So should we fill people in a little bit on the plot? So since most people are not familiar with the plot.
Kat Lewis:That's a great idea, Micah. So brief, spoiler free rundown of the plot. You have a young 18 year old Rosamund Vivian. Sheltered. Very sheltered, but sheltered with a guardian who does not show her affection, I think it's her uncle or something who basically takes her in after her parents died. And the book kind of opens with Rosamund. basically saying I've lived a life unloved and I would give anything to go and experience independence and freedom and passion. Right. And very shortly after that, we are introduced to one of her uncle's associates. His name is Philip Tempest. He is dashing, handsome, older, experienced And steadily begins to turn innocent Rosamond's Head and long story short, they ended up getting married and going off and living this wonderful life until a secret of Phillips destroys her little temple of happiness. And she realizes that she is stepped into this life of a married woman based on a lie. And it's not a lie that her character will allow her to continue forward. So what does she do? She runs away from this man thinking, You know what? There's not a lot of options for women in this time to make money, but I'm going to figure it out. What she did not count on was Philip deciding, no, this is the woman that I love and you don't get to leave me without my say so. And it begins this literal. Long, fatal, love chase around the world across years. This book takes place over years. Of a kind of stalker romance. I was going to say a stalker romance gone bad, but stalker romances to aspire to. And we'll get into my issues with book reviewers having an issue with How Philip Tempest is portrayed and yet ignoring, there's a whole new genre and contemporary romance of stalker romance. And so we have an issue with the. 19th century stalker, but we don't have an issue with the 21st century stalker. Just, you know, food for thought.
Laurel Thomas:Well, and it's kind of a progression because he pulls on the very desire of her heart, which is for freedom. Which she's not had. Gradually, what happens is that she pursues, as she gets closer to Philip Tampus, the less freedom she has and the more she finds a prison. And so it's just an interesting, I feel, I hear a lot of morality play in this story. You don't have to guess what's going on here. If you, uh, but I, I don't think it's any, even though the times are totally different. I mean, we have young adult Stories like this abound. She's being seduced to believe that a relationship is going to be great and wonderful and it's awful. Yeah. But then she's stuck and she can't get out. So anyway, I thought she did an artful job of showing how sad that a young girl, all the young girl wanted was to be loved and to be free. And yet, pursuing that freedom and pursuing that love in the wrong place, she ended up in a prison.
Melissa Grace:Well, and to me, it felt like a very long Sunday school lesson. I didn't see a lot of nuance. I mean, like the good characters were very, very good. The bad characters were very, very bad. Um, and I just, again, that goes back to the kind of immaturity of the writer, She still made it work, you know, as long as like her storytelling was strong enough that I was like, okay, that, you know, yes, I, I feel like it's a little moralizing, but her storytelling is still got me and 1 of the quotes that, um, her, um, her champion Ignatius. Tells her,"my child, never go back to this man. I know him. And if I dared sell your innocence with such knowledge, I would tell you the history of his life. You love him still and struggle against your love, feeling that it will undo you. He knows this, and he will tempt you by every lure he can devise, every deceit he can employ. Sorrow and sin will surely follow if you yield. Happiness never can be yours. With him, doubt, remorse and self reproach will kill love, and a time will come when you will find that in gaining a brief joy, you have lost your peace forever". And to me that is, it's Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really late in the book. But, um, it is the statement theme, the theme statement
Kat Lewis:I would maybe debate that there's not nuance only because when you look at like the modern heroine that we see in like, you know, these strong female centric stories, um, sometimes I think that like the. emotional impact of love and affection is sometimes glossed over with stoicism. Like, and with like modern logic. So, you know, the modern female is not going to have these moments of weakness where she's like, I know this is the wrong thing. And I'm going to lean into the wrong thing for just a second right before my morality snaps me forward,
Melissa Grace:but wouldn't that be a good character who did that? That would be a great.
Kat Lewis:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. She shows us that she, she reminds us that, you know, um, that, um, I hate anything that sounds like Disney's follow your heart, but she just reminds you that, love does impact us. And even for strong people, we have moments of weakness and we see this weakness. The weaknesses where every time Rosamund has a moment of weakness is always in Philip Tempest, you know, weedles his way back in, right? But I do think that there's nuance in the fact that When you truly care for somebody, especially a first love there's a lot more things to battle than just like, let me just straighten my spine and do the right thing.
Melissa Grace:She did do that. Well, she did do that. Well, the character development, bringing her from that just wide eyed first love to seeing.
Laurel Thomas:Her point of view was true. She was incredibly sheltered, and that's what Philip Tempest, that's what he notices. That's what gets his attention. It's almost like, you know, fresh blood. blood, right? He, he sees her innocence. He sees just the simplicity and the, and the fact that she's been so sheltered. And you know, to me, it's like, wow getting into a relationship, not knowing what love is at all and falling into that relationship with Philip Tempest and to me, that's a universal. How do you know until sometimes you see love in the opposite form? You see, okay, it's not that.
Melissa Grace:Right.
Laurel Thomas:And I felt like Rosamund, she, that was her story. Okay. I wanted love. I wanted freedom, but this is not it. But it's, it's a struggle, like Kat said.
Kat Lewis:And, you know, going back to like a quote that reveals character, I was trying to find, I was like, what's an early indication of Tempest's character? Cause it's kind of, the story is told from like this, it feels like omniscient third person POV, right? Where the author's Very actively dropping these hints. And, in the very first chapter, it says that, um,"most men would have been touched by the innocent confessions of the girl, but this man's heart had grown hard with years of selfishness. And he merely enjoyed her as he would have done a lovely flower and exciting book or a passionate song". I love there's, there's the slow build into the reveal of this character and the reveal of this betrayal and all these things. But, um, I, I think that quote is a really great example of how can you sum up the kind of man who literally is being entertained by young girls innocence? Who, um, and later on, I think in chapter three, when they're on the boat. You know, he says something to the degree of, I wanted to test this moral code that you had. I wanted to see if it was as strong as my determination. And so what Rosamond senses is admiration for her. Really? He's like, this is just a challenge. Like I've not met somebody who's so sheltered yet has such a strong sense of self. And I'm going to test the limits of this thing. And I think, for me, that's what kept drawing me in. And I was like, I. As the reader, I'm like, I know he's going to test her and I want to see how she holds up to these things. And, um, and it was, it was a long wild ride for us to see the, uh, the conclusion of this, but going on to our next question here, what is a moment in the story that stands out with visceral relief and kind of talk us through the storytelling techniques that make this as successful scene.
Laurel Thomas:Well, I thought the resolution was pretty good because he had seen, uh, the image in the mirror and she, this is at the very beginning and she said, what do you see? Is it a magic mirror? And he said, I see a young, lovely woman dead with, inconsolable old man hovering over her and a man looking on who is beyond despair. Yeah. Um, and a despair that he has never experienced before. And so, of course, then when we talk about mirror images, then that essentially is the end.
Kat Lewis:So foreshadowing
Laurel Thomas:Yeah, I mean I was just thinking mirror image because we get that at the very beginning and then we get at the very end So
Micah Leydorf:Right. If you talk about Save The Cat, which we've mentioned before, the closing scene and the opening and should kind of reflect one another. So that's when again, she didn't have Save The Cat. I
Laurel Thomas:think she was a genius or something.
Melissa Grace:I thought that the scenes with the child, and I'm sorry, I don't, I don't, um,
Kat Lewis:Lido.
Melissa Grace:Lido. Yes. That the scenes with the child, and this
Micah Leydorf:was her stepson, yes,
Melissa Grace:but we didn't know at the time it was her stepson.. I just thought it was very interesting how all the, like, um, Tempest was most definitely the antagonist. Um, and Like it seemed like everyone surrounding him was a good person. I mean, you know, he had his minions but, um, everybody else seemed to, you know, like Lido is portrayed as really sweet and the ex wife is very virtuous and the things that touched me the most were When Tempest felt pain and when he felt anything, even like a hint of remorse, like he has a quote that says,"perhaps remorse will come all at once when least expected, for atonement surely must be made here or hereafter". Um, it's, I liked him. I liked how textured he was. I mean, everybody else just seemed like caricatures, flat, but, it made me think, okay, so for somebody as young as Louisa May Alcott was when she wrote this, she, she'd done a lot of deep thinking to be able to portray, a wicked man,
Kat Lewis:yeah, that's good. That's good. There's lots of things in here that stand out to me. And I think this book is, is really impactful because it takes what modern literature has really made sexy, and it shows the side of it in a very elongated form of there is nothing sexy about a manipulative, rich, toxic stalker man. And I don't care how many dollar signs come after his name. I don't care what his, you know, annual net worth is. And yet we have so much, so many novels that are based around. I mean, I'm not, So unashamed in my, displeasure towards Fifty Shades of Grey. And even like there's a new, there's a relatively new novel that they turned into a TV show called You, where it's
Micah Leydorf:That's what I was thinking you were referring to. Yeah. That's what I think of when you think of stalker romance.
Kat Lewis:Exactly. And it was with an actor who I was like, Oh, I like him. I have no idea what this is about. And I was like, this is not something to be celebrated. And I think that we see at some point Philip begins to realize He's like, I realized that I'm way too invested in this woman and in this chase and in this, this ownership of her, but I can't seem to stop. Right. And then we see all this chaos and carnage around that. But the scene that really stands out to me with visceral relief is the scene in the monastery where she is confessing to the priest thinking it's the priest. And then Philip reveals himself as, ha ha, it's just I, right. And that in, in her response is not this fiery indignation. It is like weariness. We have this whole chapter of her trying to convince herself, I do not love this man. I should not love this man. And her realizing I still have affinity for him. And so when he reveals himself after this year, I think at this point, we've been in this chase for two years, right? She's just weary and she just kind of lets herself be embraced and just lets herself, like, as even the character herself is like, I will, I will be strong again in a moment. Right. But like, just, I, I was, it was such a, the scene is such a great picture of the conflict of morality over love. And again, the softness that I think is sometimes missing from, heroines in modern day literature. I can appreciate just the realness of This is, this man is her first love. This is the first man she slept with. There's all this connection to him. And for all of your morality, there's going to be moments, Where, what you've invested in on earth are going to seem overwhelming and they're going to overpower you. And I just thought that that was a really great, that was a really great depiction of that, but it also was a great depiction of a shift in her motivation. Because when she realizes that this man is not changed, because she mentions the, quietly sexy young priest who she's been hanging around with Ignatius. And the second she mentions another man, the monster comes back full force. And she's like, I think that's when she, I think that's when her, the moral premise with which she left. is reaffirmed in such a way where she's like, I don't think he's ever going to change. And I don't think I can allow myself to be in this kind of intimate moment with him again. I
Laurel Thomas:mean, if you look at the pattern of any abusive relationship, whether it's male or female. The fact that it continues, I think is, is expressed well in the novel that there's at first there's a naivete like well, he loves me, so it should be fine, right? And then more and more is revealed in that character, but she gets more and more attached and is more and more invested. in the relationship. So with every revelation of how hard and how cruel and how really lawless he is, she's more invested. So I think, you know, when you get into like, um, ministering to people who are trying to come out of an abusive relationship, you know, people can look and go, well, this is like a no brainer. They're mean to you. Well, Yeah, talk to Rosamund. You know, you've got a lot invested, and there's always that hope that maybe they've changed. Maybe they've changed, and yet, most often, they don't. So, I mean, it's not that far off track.
Kat Lewis:Yeah, I think that that leads us into the third question, which is like, what are the truths about society or the human experience that are, that's explored, confirmed, or challenged in this novel? And I just think that, um, it's worth being said that, sacrificing your innocence for sexual gratification, for financial stability, for even independence, which are all of those things are things that modern society glorifies. And yet the numbers of domestic abuse are so high. And yet the numbers of, you know, young girls who grow up and have deep regrets and deep pain and deep trauma, like this book really walks you through how, how it begins. Right. There's so much action through this book, but I thought that just the simple truth of innocence is precious. Innocence should be valued more than it is. I think the reason this book stood out to me is like Rosamund, Rosamund's mistakes are the mistakes that I would have made if not for interventions,
Laurel Thomas:well, she didn't have anyone. She didn't. And that, I think what you can see very clearly is that's how a predator will target someone who doesn't have a support system doesn't have someone saying, uh, all that glitters is not gold and that man, you know, I think later Ignatius, you know, he gave her very clear warnings and he cared about her, but not when she, Was with her uncle. She didn't have anybody. She really was very vulnerable.
Micah Leydorf:I think you know what you said earlier and you Laurel you and Melissa both said kind of when you said it was a morality Play and Melissa when you said it was like a long Sunday school lesson. I think that it's very much written to You know flesh out You The morality and the truths that Louisa May Alcott believed, you know, she was like you mentioned, she was a colleague with David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson and her father was huge in the transcendental movement. And a very big belief in that was all about. Like the, the, the purity of the human soul, without any outside intervention. It was, you know, the outside forces of the world that, actually poison us.
Kat Lewis:Corrupt you.
Micah Leydorf:Correct us. Right. And so I feel like that her, like you said about her being alone, that that, there's that theme. That's part of the truth that she was trying to convey. Um, it's about that, that looking to that pure, unpoisoned, Soul that she kind of returned to that, you know, for a moment he pulled her away from yeah But then, you know, it was stronger than all that, but I don't know if that's realistic I don't know if it's realistic for a girl who literally has no one and who only has this evil influence To just from her own bootstraps just like withstand all of the temptations I mean at the very end she has her champion and he makes just like how could she have with you know? That takes a lot of yeah gumption. So I don't know if that's Really realistic, but again, I definitely feel like that was a truth that she was that she believed that she'd been taught and that she was, um, flashing out in the story.
Melissa Grace:It was interesting. There's some place in speaking to that, where she says something to the effect of her women's nature aroused her, yeah, there it is."Innocent and ignorant as she was, the hooks, the books she had read gave her some hints of the existence of sin and her woman's nature warned her when no other voice was near to save". Um, so I think that's, I think that's interesting. Yes. I hadn't looked at it from the perspective of her being a part of the transcendental movement, but the truth that I thought of that was conveyed here and, uh, was, you know, a proverb that says to the hungry, any bitter thing is sweet because that's where he found her was just starving, like just, and that is a person that is a woman who is very vulnerable
Kat Lewis:I think that actually feeds us into our last question of the day, which is what aspect of the craft of writing was done exceptionally well in this book. And I'm seeing some trends between A Long Fatal Love Chase, Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre, right. That are based around these, you know, lonely girls Who are, If they don't spend their younger years abused and overlooked, right? They often end up they grow up and they choose these men who are worldly and, um, deeply flawed. And what's interesting is I think that there's something to be said for a villain, a villain character that is so aware of their flaws. But like a character who's decided that there's no other course for me, but to live with this flaw and they can name them. Right. So I think so often, um, it's easy to write villains who, um, are maybe aware of trauma, but they're not aware of like the flaw that's linked to that trauma. And so to have Philip Tempest, to have Mr. Rochester, to have, I can't remember the name of the guy in Wuthering Heights,
Laurel Thomas:Heathcliff
Kat Lewis:Heathcliff Heathcliff. And it's just very interesting for the author to be so deeply aware of a villain's motivation. And even the emotional pit that a villain finds themself in. That's one of the things I think that was done really exceptionally well in this book is, you know, even as we talk about like the melodrama, right, Philip is very self aware, right? Of what's spurring him on.
Melissa Grace:One of the quotes that I wrote down was, I don't think I shall be called upon to atone for my sins as they are my father's.
Micah Leydorf:Well, that's very modern, isn't it?
Melissa Grace:Yes.
Kat Lewis:What else, ladies? What else is done exceptionally well in this book from a craft perspective? Was there an element of storytelling that you learned or
Micah Leydorf:well, I think we've talked about what she does very well in like keeping your attention and like, you know, the cliffhanger at the end of every chapter, another modern thing. I think also just keeping the action moving. Um, I think that was the, the, her best skill, like just speaking from a technical perspective. Yeah. I think again, I just, I always liked it. Pull out the negative. I just felt like her point of view. It just again. It just made me it's funny. There is often time we talk about as writers about point of view and that you need to stay in. You know,
Melissa Grace:that's fairly new to stay in one point of view.
Micah Leydorf:No, but no, this is like like for instance I just pulled out This is a description of somebody like looking at Rosamond when she's a little bit older and it says in looking at her one Involuntarily said quote that woman has known great sorrow But it will not kill her for there was an indefinable air of strength and courage about her Which seemed to wonderfully enhance the spell of her beauty. Like, okay, so what random stranger could really look at her and say, like, that's a point of view. Like that person cannot know that. And as an author, that's kind of a clumsy way to communicate that. That's funny. So, yeah, so I think that wasn't her strength, but her strength was keeping the action going, keeping, you know, like you said, this multi layered villain with all of the different and complex. Motivations. Um, I literally liked Ignatius myself. The champion at the end and I am getting a funny look.
Kat Lewis:No, no, no, no, no. What when did the narrative of the good man is lame. Where did that come from? Because Ignatius is such a great example of somebody who chooses to love you, literally seeing you at your worst. Like Ignatius literally saves her from this man.
Micah Leydorf:He's Rip. From Yellowstone.
Kat Lewis:Yellowstone reference.
Micah Leydorf:Everybody loves him because he sees the woman at her worst and still loves her.
Kat Lewis:And still loves her and, and continually chooses to, like he, like at some point, you know, Rosamund is still so conflicted about whether or not. Like, is it the easier thing to be with Tempest or should I stick to my morals? And she really is waffling. She waffles really hard around the in the middle of the book. And Ignatius just, like, loves her through it. He doesn't judge her. He just gives her sound advice.
Micah Leydorf:With no personal agenda, that's what makes you love a hero. It's like the self sacrifice. Like if they have an agenda, okay, well then all, all your good stuff is just thrown out the window.
Melissa Grace:It's just selfish.
Micah Leydorf:It's all just, you're just being, um, strategic, right? You're not being selfless, but it's the selfless hero that we love. It's the one who, Without seeking their own first, you know, sacrifices himself for the one that he cares about. And that's what, you know, it's always so attractive.
Kat Lewis:Yeah. Yeah. And Ignatius is the one who I think is alive to mourn her at the end of the book. Right? Like the, the, the, the, the ending of the book.
Micah Leydorf:You've given all the spoilers!
Kat Lewis:No, no, no, I'm not, that was not a spoiler. I will just say, The ending of this novel battles any Colleen Hoover, like it right. I just, I'm telling you, I'm telling you it's all there in the title. It's all there. It's all there in the title. But ladies, let's, let's close out with our character roulette, where we throw a bunch of names into the hat and we pick out a character and we just discuss their significance to the plot, what the author did well in developing that character. So on and so forth. So in the pot, we have, of course, our lovely Rosamund and the evil Tempest and the just darling champion Ignatius. We also have Lido, the stepson. We've got, um, the Duke. Okay. Yes. The man that she, yeah, the Duke that almost snags Rosamund from the clutches of Philip Tempest. His daughter, the Duke's daughter. The Duke's daughter. Yes. And the uncle, the uncle who just kind of lets her flounder. We have Tempest Henchman and I can't remember his name.
Melissa Grace:Baptiste.
Kat Lewis:Baptiste. You've got Baptiste. Um, lots of juicy characters, juicy characters to discuss. So let's stir them all up. So many juicy things, like talk about Talk about an author who literally,
Laurel Thomas:she fulfilled her assignment,
Kat Lewis:she fulfilled her assignment and the world wasn't ready.
Micah Leydorf:But Kat was, well she wasn't, she wasn't born.
Melissa Grace:She was in 1995, she was there for it then.
Kat Lewis:Um, okay, so let's stir up the pot and let's, and the name that we have drawn is, Lido. Oh, yes. Yes. So at the beginning of the book, Rosamund thinks that it's just, uh, a young servant boy who Tempest has kind of found an affinity for. But later we realized that Lido is indeed Tempest's stepson, right? Or son. Tempest's son. And so let's kind of talk about, like, the character of Lido in, in You know, his impact on the story is like, um, was there any foreshadowing? Was he an engine of change or truth in the story? Like, what are your thoughts about Lido in general?
Laurel Thomas:Well, I mean, he showed up the depravity. I mean, you know, that's about as bad as you can get, right? I mean, he used his own son and then he said his son was killed to manipulate And he basically had the child imprisoned. So, yeah, he was He was a mirror for deep depravity in the villain,
Micah Leydorf:right? It's revealed to the reader how dark and how vicious he could truly be. He could treat his own son in such a way. If you had any doubts about his evilness, they are now completely confirmed. Yeah. Again, if murdering the other guy wasn't enough, you can now know that he really has No depth to how dangerous and how evil he could be.
Melissa Grace:And when Lido was good because Lido was, he was good, like all the way through good. And it turned on its head, uh, Tempus. excuse, I shall not, I don't think I shall be called to atone for, for my sins, but as they are my father's. It made clear that everybody has their own choices because Lido didn't follow in his footsteps. And so Tempest, his depravity was his own choice. Hmm.
Kat Lewis:And Lido is a, is a very interesting character because he. Response to so much of Tempest viciousness in the early part of the story with kind of just like this wry acceptance. Like, he's like, yeah, that's just,
Melissa Grace:that's how he is.
Kat Lewis:That's how he is. And we just know to avoid him when he gets, you know, but it wasn't, it was not like a, it was like a beaten down victim. It was very much like, just like this kind of amused is too strong in the other direction, but he just, he knew how to navigate it and he just wasn't. He
Melissa Grace:wasn't letting it in.
Kat Lewis:He wasn't letting it in. Like
Melissa Grace:Tempest let his father's sins in. He didn't, Lido didn't let his father's sins in.
Micah Leydorf:So I feel like that the character of Lido does show the skill of Louisa May Alcott as a writer because you think about he's a pretty minor character. You got these major protagonists major villain you have this pretty minor character but she did use him in all the ways that you're talking about she used him as a You know, plot device, to draw the story in a certain way. She also used him kind of, you know, as a morality play, like you're saying, she also used it just to lighten this, the story a little bit, to make it just a little bit more pleasant to read. And it also could reveal. Rosamund's character through her interaction with him
Melissa Grace:and her love for him and him, his disappearance being a huge catalyst.
Micah Leydorf:Right. So I feel like she used him very successfully for being such a minor character in a lot of different ways. So I think that does reveal her skill as a writer.
Melissa Grace:I'm just always continually amazed that these writers You know, back 150 years ago, I mean, I have my Save The Cat book and I am looking,
Micah Leydorf:well, you've got a word processor
Melissa Grace:and I've got a word processor and I've got all these wonderful people telling me how to write a novel and where did she get it? I mean, you know, how did she figure it out? They were
Laurel Thomas:very literary. I mean, I think our, in our culture, there's been this bias that, you know, that we have a, a handle on all things worldly and literary and, uh, no, I all you have to do is read, you know, Charles Dickens and they were with literary friends. It was their, it was their world.
Micah Leydorf:So basically, I mean, I love you guys. And I was even thinking as I was driving over here to record this podcast with you all, you know, again, we've said before that we originally met as a fiction critique group. I was thinking about how much, you know, You guys have been part of, like, my personal journey, and I feel like, oh, I couldn't be where I was if I didn't have these friends to help me. But that's what their whole world was. Like I say, they lived in this little commune, basically, in Massachusetts. So their world was like a fiction critique group. When you think about like the Bronte sisters, you know, you talked about Heathcliff and Wuthering Heights. Oh my gosh, they were so prolific. And they literally walked around their living room for exercise every day. Like no interaction with the outside world, but they had each other and they had all the books. Right? You know, we talked about Screw Tape Letters last week and the inklings. That's part of probably why you had all of this coming out with the Lord of the Rings and C. S. Lewis and you know, all of these things in that they were. Together they were talking about these things. So there's a lot to be said for surrounding yourself with others who are similarly minded.
Laurel Thomas:And I miss that.
Kat Lewis:That's so good. That's so good. Well, you guys, thank you for being a part of our little writing community and forcing us to be better so we can bring these things to you guys. Feel free to touch base with us next month for our next episode. Hang out with us on Instagram until then, and we will see you guys in just a little bit.
Micah Leydorf:Bye.
Laurel Thomas:Bye.
Melissa Grace:Bye.
