Stories That Change Us
Where great storytelling meets craft. Four writer-friends dive into the most iconic fiction of the last century—not just to admire it, but to dissect it. We uncover what makes these stories unforgettable: sharp characters, masterful plots, and the social undercurrents that give them staying power. The result? A lively, intergenerational conversation that sparks insights for writers at every stage. Whether you're dreaming of your debut or leveling up your next bestseller, this is your place to learn how great stories are made.
Stories That Change Us
Episode 12: And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie
Haunting, suspenseful, and devilishly clever—Agatha Christie’s And Then There Were None remains one of the most chilling mysteries ever written. With masterful use of red herrings, precise pacing, and an eerie atmosphere of isolation, Christie pulls readers into a psychological trap that feels inescapable. Her sharp dialogue and meticulous plotting strip away each character’s façade, exposing guilt, fear, and desperation in terrifying succession. Join us as we unpack how Christie transforms a simple whodunit into a haunting study of justice, morality, and the darkness lurking within us all.
Question: what is a story that has changed your life?
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and then there were none. A 62nd book summary 10 strangers are lured to a secluded mansion on Soldier Island. Each invited under a different pretext: work, vacation old friendship. Their host is nowhere to be found. At dinner, a gramophone recording accuses each guest of murder, crimes they've already gotten away with... until now. Shaken, they realize the island is cut off from the mainland. No boat, no way to escape. One by one, the guest begin to die each in a manner eerily matching a verse from a sinister nursery rhyme displayed in every room. Poison, strangulation, a shot to the heart: the murders grow more elaborate, the survivors more paranoid. Trust shatters, alliances crumble. Everyone is a suspect. As the body count rises, it becomes chillingly clear: the killer is one of them. By the end, the last victim falls, and the killer's identity is revealed in a posthumous confession, a twisted mind obsessed with perfect justice
Micah Leydorf:Welcome to Stories That Change Us. We are recording live for the first time with the camera. Oh my gosh! I noticed a little bit different. You can actually see our faces. So we maybe want to introduce ourselves and go around. Start with you, Kat.
Kat Lewis:Oh, yes It's different not being a talking head. So, my name is Kat Lewis and I write thrilling women's fiction.
Melissa Grace:My name is Melissa Grace and I write inspirational fiction.
Laurel Thomas:My name is Laurel Thomas and I write fantasy.
Micah Leydorf:And my name is Micah Leydorf, and I write inspirational fiction, among other things. And we are so glad to have you here for Stories That Change Us. Tonight, we are going to be talking about one of the best selling fiction auth Actually, she is the best selling fiction author of all time. And her story that we're discussing is, And Then There Were None. Of course, we're talking about Agatha Christie, the queen of crime, the queen of mystery, has, been named as, the world's favorite Christie. So, her books have sold over two billion copies. Maybe that's partially because She wrote 66 detective novels.
Kat Lewis:Oh my gosh.
Micah Leydorf:And 14 short story compilations, so she's very prolific. So, you know, those numbers, that might have something to do with it. But, I think as writers, we definitely have some things to learn. from Agatha Christie. She was born in, 1890 and then she died in, 1976, I think. She was 85 years old. So she also had a very long and prolific, career as a writer. But one of the things I thought was interesting is I was doing a little bit of research after we read this book that I think we'll all take encouragement from. I know that, The four of us would probably take encouragement, but maybe others as well, is that she was first rejected six times. I know we'd hear of other people rejected hundreds of times. Six is good. Six seems like a wholesome number. Sure, sure. This book has sold over a hundred million copies, and it was the most difficult book she ever, ever sold. wrote and it's the sixth best, sixth, number six best selling book of all time. Wow. Yeah, so again, I think that this was a strong pick And Then There Were None. So let's, let's get started with the discussion. Um, is there anything anybody wants to say immediately before we start with our questions? We usually start with our favorite quotes, but is there anything that somebody's just burning comments you have to make about? And then they were none. Yeah, I mean, I, um, am a big Agatha Christie fan. In fact, Agatha Christie probably is one of the reasons that I decided to pick up a pen because I wanted to try and beat her and match her. Um, but this is actually one of You always set such low goals. I know, I know. You are
Kat Lewis:an underachiever. Probably never in the U. S. I have to be like Agatha. Um, but, um, this is one of hers that I had never read before. So seriously, seriously. So I was like, how did I miss this? I don't know. So it was, it was a lot of fun to come back to an author that, um, influenced middle school Kat to write and to see that she is, it's just as strong and resonant, you know, as an adult. Right.
Micah Leydorf:So I'm curious, Kat. I mean, that's a powerful statement to say, this is a person who made you want to take up a pen. So what was it that you read of hers that did make you want to do that?
Kat Lewis:Um, so I, I'm the kid who read choose your own adventure novels, and I just always thought I could write a story around, you know, there's a point when you begin to craft your own adventures and you're like, I should be writing these adventures down. Right. And, but, you know, there was something so intellectual about the way that Agatha Christie wrote. Right. And so visual that, you know, you talk about like an author who we should be making all of her books, you know, into movies because they're so visual and they're so emotional. Right. And as a very emotional fifth grader, right, who had probably more emotions than I knew what to give the names to. Um, I understood the mystery. I understood these, you know, these characters who wanted to be large, who wanted to be larger than life. And yet that seemed to elude them and then like wrapped into like danger and a little bit of romance, then twisted morale. I mean, it just was everything that I. Thought I wanted to be in life, you know.
Micah Leydorf:Wow. Okay. So awesome. So we've got one of your heroes here. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Well, how about quotes? We'd like to start off with, a favorite quote, not just, you know, there's so many, but one that stood out to you as a great example of one of the literary elements that Agatha Christie does so well. So maybe tension or characterization or author's voice. Well,
Laurel Thomas:I thought her point of view was amazing and actually she had a separate point of view for every major character at the beginning. So that you don't see that many points of view done effectively. Effectively.
Mm-Hmm. But
Laurel Thomas:she did it very well. And the, uh, young police officer, uh, it's interesting because he's on the train and he sees this older man, and the older man said, A squall is coming.
Mm.
Laurel Thomas:And, and the guy's like you, whatever. Well, then the guy's, you know, he's, he's drunk anyway. The older man falls out of the train when they stop and he looks up. Is it Bloor? I don't know how to pronounce his last name. And he says the judgment is at hand. And then he says, and I'm talking about you. And the interesting thing is that that Bloor says, he goes, you know, you're a lot closer in his mind. He goes, you're a lot closer to judgment than I am. And then he says, but it turns out So I mean, it's the, she lays some really strong hints through POV without ruining, but definitely building the tone. Even though there are strangers coming from all different points of life, she's building that creepy tone at the very beginning. And that was just one example.
Micah Leydorf:Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about before, you know, mood and setting and, and again, we like to not give spoilers for sure. Not on this particular story. I mean, you know, no. Well, we, we usually do. Usually it's like, okay, if you haven't read it, it's too bad for you. Stop now. If you haven't read it, stop now and read it and then read it. To get on the program. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how many spoilers you want to give on this, but just a little bit of, if you haven't, It's these 10 strangers all converging on this island. It's alternatively called Indian Island or Soldier Island depending on the initial name, which we won't say. Um, but, uh, it, it's, you know, at this point, deserted island, these 10 strangers. I mean, it doesn't get much more ominous than that, right? Even if there wasn't a squall coming, even if old man didn't say judgment day. And it's
Laurel Thomas:based on a poem, 10 Little Indians. So they've revised that title, but that is the name of the poem. And the poem itself is very creepy. And there's a copy of it in every room of the house.
Melissa Grace:That's what I thought was very interesting about how she wrote this was, she was going to model the, she was going to write a novel based on this creepy children's poem. That everybody would have known. Yes. Yes. And yes, I, I thought that was fascinating, but the quote I love, it's, you know, talking about, um, just building character through quotes. Okay. Miss Brandt, she was the one who was there because she had turned her teenager pregnant. Unmarried, maid out in the street. Ms. Brent said coldly, There is no question of defense. I have always acted in accordance with the dictates of my conscience. I have nothing with which to reproach myself. And to me that was like, I think maybe that's the very definition of self righteousness. That you look and you say, as far as my conscience is concerned, I'm fine.
Laurel Thomas:No, and it was so telling of her character. Yes. Yes. Because all of the characters are very unique.
Melissa Grace:And they all have a quote like that. Like I have, I have several more, but they all have a quote that in just because she had to be so economical. Yes. Because she had so many characters. So Many fully fleshed out characters. She could not waste money.
Micah Leydorf:So I love, you know, I mean, if you go to the basic writing school, one of the first things they're going to tell you, right, is show, don't tell. And I think what you just said does exactly that. Instead of saying, oh, she was self righteous. She was so
Melissa Grace:self righteous.
Micah Leydorf:Yeah. All we need is this one sentence. Right. Yeah. So I just love that. You know, saying like, oh, I have nothing to reproach myself about in my class. I don't have any Any guilt? No, I'm fine.
Kat Lewis:Yeah. Yeah. Well, and one of the things that Agatha does so phenomenally in this novel is she, finds a way to really give each individual character their own distinctive quality and it's the quality that carries them through. It's the quality that condemns them right at the end of the novel,
Melissa Grace:I hadn't seen it from that perspective that it was
Kat Lewis:both
Melissa Grace:the thing that Yeah, that's good. Kept them going and was their, their noose.
Kat Lewis:But talk about like creating when you're juggling so many characters or when you have like characters that are very distinct Or for a, you know, for an author who writes series characters and you're like, I'm going to see John Smith again in book five. How do you create characters that have a lot of depth? And I think it's interesting how she gave each of them one defining character and then went deep and dark with that characteristic, right? Like, I think of, um, Philip, right. He just stood out to me from moment one. I'm like, this guy has a history, right. And I want to know what that is, but, um, he's
Melissa Grace:a scoundrel. He's a
Laurel Thomas:rake, Lombard, Lombard, the, Oh, not the fast car driver, the captain, the young one, but the guy who went over to Africa and killed all the Yeah. Yes. Tribal people.
Kat Lewis:Yes. But I think as far as like when you're trying to create characters that people will remember, I just think that she did a great job of taking that one characteristic and really digging deep into that versus making them this, I think, I think maybe the, my, um, What I'm prone to do is make them this court jester who is amusing all around, right? So, oh yeah, they have, she has to be like bold, but a little mysterious, but also a little bit, you know, humorous. Instead of just saying, no, if you're going to be Eeyore, be Eeyore. And that's, that's, that's one of the things that I walked away with from this novel that I thought she did freaking incredibly. And as the story went on, we began to see the writing on the wall for each of these.
Micah Leydorf:We need to hear your quote.
Kat Lewis:Yes, yes. This is, right before the murders start, right in the house. Um, everybody is Everybody's gathered and they're suspicious of each other because they're like, what do we all have in common? Well, and this quote says there was a silence a comfortable replete silence Into that silence came the voice without warning inhuman and penetrating Ladies and gentlemen silence, please you are charged with the following indictments there's something very theatrical about this, right? That is a sentence that turns the story, right, into, would you say, at, into at two, I was like, and I was reminded of the importance of my reader being able to go back to a specific moment that's, that's That is linked to pivot That everything changed. Everything changes here. And for me as the reader I knew immediately i'm like We're not in kansas anymore and we're getting ready to up the ante. So that's that was Like a literary moment where I as the reader Was I but I strapped in because i'm like everything's changing here and as an author i'm like man How can I encapsulate that? the journey to come in a single sentence.
Melissa Grace:Oh, I was just to say, I hadn't thought of it from the perspective where they had the comfortable silence and then that, I mean, that to me, that is like a literary trick to make this even more profound, this, this, um, big splash in the water of, you are too charge with the following indictments. To have it like, eh, we're having a good time. You know, the food's good. The service is impeccable. Getting to know each other. So, yeah. Another, a little hint, to make things even more impactful. There's contrast. And it
Laurel Thomas:is probably, I mean, the inciting incident, but there's so much preliminary with the other points of view that it's just interesting because she, she did that well.
Micah Leydorf:She did. Right, And that gets us to our second question, which is What are the literary elements that Agatha Christie executed so well, particularly in this novel? And how did that execution influence the plot?
Kat Lewis:Well, I would say foreshadowing. The first chapter in this novel is probably the best first chapter that I've read. ever. I was thinking about this on the way over here that she does such a phenomenal job of not only setting up the character arc, but setting up the tension and the conflict in such a way that it could go into at least a dozen different directions. And I, as the reader, I'm sitting going, okay, but like, how are we, where are you taking this? Versus Sometimes foreshadowing that it, and this might also be a literary trick as well, foreshadowing that misleads the reader. Right. Um, I think I see that, you know, done, often and very well. If this is like, yeah, but this is like, we have no idea how she's going to bring them all together, but we're so intrigued by the individual storylines, these individual snapshots that I'm firmly like, at no point, at no point was I not totally invested on the ride.
Micah Leydorf:And I think one thing that does set Agatha Christie apart and what she does really well is the characterization. Like, you know, again, you have 10 characters, it'd be really easy to kind of make a few of them throwaway characters, right? There's so many, right? And you think about most stories that we see portrayed in movies or books, They don't take the time to flesh out more than, two or three characters or, a lot of times just even two characters these days. A lot of, even the books that we've read, the others feel like throwaways and they're not really fully developed, but it was masterful that she was able to fully flesh out ten characters in the one book. Like you said, she didn't waste any words but yet she didn't just say oh I got this really clever idea and wouldn't it be fun to just do this little poem and and even just figuring out the ways to kill them would be enough right that she could have just done that but instead she had them you know with backstories and motivations and dialogue that revealed their character and was pulled out by other So there was just nothing wasted in in any of those interactions So I think that's that's part of what has caused this story to like rise
Laurel Thomas:To the top And the unifying factor is is that they've all murdered and they've gotten away with it So you begin to hear the little backpedaling, that's part of the character development. Because even Vera says, you know, I won't think about it. And she gets little, little, tiny little flashbacks of the drowning with Cyril. But basically there is a unifying factor for all of them. They've all committed murder and none of them have been caught. And so it's a really interesting study to see like how that works in the human psyche. You know, like one of them says, I didn't do anything wrong. Right. Two or three of them
Melissa Grace:said, I didn't do anything wrong.
Laurel Thomas:Well, the guy that ran over two children and right anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
Kat Lewis:Well, and then it's like, how that, how does that unifying factor. Propel the plot. It's like as you go Deeper into this very kind of dark story, right? We see character motivations that begin to clash with each other. But then we see all of these alliances form and then disintegrate and then all these things were like, Oh my gosh, like we all voted Micah off the island, but Oh my gosh, it wasn't Micah. Now it's, now it's you Laurel, you know, um, and how does, and how that moves the plot forward, but also how that continues to reveal the backstory, the guilt, all the things. You know, I
Micah Leydorf:didn't even realize it until you just mentioned that Laurel about the, you know, the, the first gentleman who was killed was the one who had, who had run over these two children and who felt. No remorse. It was, you know, he was not a deep person. And I, and, you know, and then to not reveal too much, you know, but, that one of the last people killed was again, this woman who was such a riveting story of being responsible for the death of this little boy. And I mean, like all the, of all the storylines in the novel, hers is the one that would stick with you. And the fact that she was one of the last ones to go. Versus the the person who's shallow goes first and the one who's deep goes last and just like. I had that she did such A good job of weaving this whole Vera actually was the most complex character outside of the judge Right, so Yeah, so having the most complex character at the very end So, other, other, again, there's so much that Agatha Christie does well, other literary elements that she does well that,
Melissa Grace:I, I, I don't, maybe you all can help me put a finger on what literary element it is, but the figurines disappearing off the table. I just thought that was, I mean, that was what, that was what, okay, that's creepy. It's like, okay, people are dying, people are, Isn't that a way to keep
Micah Leydorf:the tension? It was, it was, you're right, you're right. It was a way to keep that tension. In symbolism,
Melissa Grace:and it kept the tension going. And the mystery. Yes, it's like, who is moving those? How are they disappearing?. Because the big, the big question is why done it? You know, I love, I love how, how, you know, the, Oh, it's not really a who done it. It's why done it. And, um, yes, so that answered that question for us.
Kat Lewis:I genuinely was a bit traumatized because I, not because I cared about the person dying, which I did, but because I was like, am I going to forever have these little Indian soldiers moving themselves across the table? Like I really was, I'm glad that there. Well, because she wouldn't
Laurel Thomas:know that there, you know, cause maybe it was supernatural because there were hints that it was all supernatural. So when the killer does, I
Micah Leydorf:didn't see those. What were the hints? See, I feel like I did
Melissa Grace:too. And I felt like that was something she did very well because I am And I am a person who, you know, and I've read Agatha Christie before and I know she does that. I know that she, yes, yes, yes, that she, that she, yeah, she kind of puts out something like, whoo, who knows? So I felt like that means she, she just stayed on that line. So it was not so much that I was like, Oh, this is hokey. But just that little tiny little, little seed of
Micah Leydorf:doubt about, so when you mentioned that, like when you said like, Oh, she just kept me, you know, going so. So what are some of the elements that you guys saw that you could like identify that are how she keeps us going. So I think we all agree like everybody keeps reading. Everyone wants to know. How many books? 60
Melissa Grace:million? I mean how many millions of books? In
Laurel Thomas:this book particularly. Right? Who's gonna die next? And we're already invested in the characters. We know them. We know it a little bit. And like Kat said, we have some relationships forming and you think, hmm. So. But essentially it's who's going to die next.
Kat Lewis:I was going to say, it's that question of who and what, right? And it's on the tip of your tongue and you as a reader already have, you've already made your own assumptions. So sometimes you're reading and you're turning the page because you're like, Oh, I'm ready for that person to go. Or I think, or I think that that person did it. And I think that we're on the cusp of finding that out. And that question in the forefront of your mind, which is,
the question
Kat Lewis:that is propelling the story and that's keeping the reader engaged. That is one of the things that I've taken away from this novel is How do I keep the question, even if it's the wrong question, right? Even if it's the wrong one. So clearly in the reader's mind that that is why they keep turning the page. Because they have to know. I think
Micah Leydorf:that's really good observation, Kat. We all just were at a writer's conference this weekend, WriterCon. Great little thing. That's how we met, kind of, a little bit, um, many
years ago, unnamed number
Micah Leydorf:of years ago. But, one of the classes I went to was on mystery writing, and I don't write mysteries, and I don't generally even read mysteries. But one of the, Themes of that class was that there's mystery in all writing, whether, you know, that there needs to be mystery and, um, exactly what
you said, Kat, is you
Micah Leydorf:want to have your reader. Asking a question, you want to be clear about what question it is, and then you want to answer it, you know, and then you want to create another question. So that's something that I
Melissa Grace:think that I think we might have seen the same class and I think. I, I'll try to give a shout. I think it was John Worley. Does that sound
Micah Leydorf:right? No, that wasn't, that was not right. Sorry. We'll
Melissa Grace:cut. We'll cut that. Mine was drawn,
Micah Leydorf:um, the, the, he writes mysteries and from Maui.
Melissa Grace:Yes, that, okay. That's who I'm trying to say. Yes. But anyway, we'll put his name in later. But anyway, show notes
Kat Lewis:Kat. Yeah, that's right in the show notes.
Melissa Grace:Yes. But he said something to the effect of, for every. Every question you ask, or every question you answer, you need to have a couple more questions out there. Like you, you can't.
Micah Leydorf:His name is Rick Ludwick. I happen to have his latest book.
Melissa Grace:His, his class was very good. And like I said, for every question you answer as a writer, you need to post two more questions to keep the, keep the pace, the tension, keep the tension up.
Laurel Thomas:And that applies to all genres, so. Yes, not just mystery. Right. Great to learn that lesson.
Micah Leydorf:Okay, well that brings us to our third question, um, which is what social commentary has transcended the life of this book. Now, I think there's a little bit, in most of our books, there's a whole lot of social commentary. There's a little bit less, and again, we have 1984 coming up. Um, so there is a whole lot of social commentary. But, um, but what, what, did you sense any social commentary in Agatha Christie?
Laurel Thomas:I think the interesting to me, the interesting thematic question if you wanted to go there is what about unconfessed? Um, Sin. An unconfessed crime or crime that has never been, discovered or prosecuted or whatever. You know, does it mean it didn't happen? Does it mean because it never is exposed that it never has an effect on the person who carries that?
I
Laurel Thomas:mean, was there a ripple effect in some way? Because of that. So, I mean, to me, I'm not sure she meant that thematically, but I think it's an interesting idea.
Micah Leydorf:I think that that is an excellent point. And I think that, again, just like with the characterization, I mean, like, again, people, a lot of people can write a page turner and keep you going and ask those questions. But I feel like the ones that are transcendent, the books that are transcendent, are so because they have all these elements because they have The tension yes and the craftsmanship and the neatly formed plot and it keeps us going but then they have a character That makes us care about those people and remember their stories. But then again, there's this thematic element of oh Wait, hey, there is this whole idea of these unconfessed sins and, and that, you know, gives us a little something to chew on. It's not just, you know, mission impossible and, you know, like who's going to do the thing. It actually gives us something. She actually gives a
Laurel Thomas:really good window. Into these 10 different characters and how they see what they did and all the varieties of ways which is really insightful to do it in one person, much less 10, right? I was just gonna say
Melissa Grace:it just dawned on me. I think this is very interesting that, the unnamed killer. when they wrote their epilogue that explained at the which shall not be named which But he says
Micah Leydorf:of himself I've
Melissa Grace:always had this urge to kill so he sees him. He's admitting. I'm a psychopath And all these people that he's punished You They weren't really psychopaths. They were people who they killed for, you know, greed, love, love.
Laurel Thomas:Well, there was one psychopath and that was the last one that he put to death. Because I was
Melissa Grace:thinking that one was, it was greed. Well, he had a known
Laurel Thomas:reputation, and again, we can't really disclose this because then it will give away the person, but he had a known reputation and he came before the court system. And he knew, beyond the evidence, he knew what he had done. Oh, okay. And he made the ruling on the basis of what he knew, rather than the evidence. Okay. I mean, that's a huge spoiler, so you can cut that. Yeah.
Melissa Grace:Um, I didn't know the nature of, of that, of that killing or whatever, but the, but the one who killed, you know, who set this whole thing up, who masterminded this whole thing and confessed it at the very end, he or she said, said, they said of themselves that they were, they knew they had psychopathic tendencies and I don't see that in the others. Oh, you mean among the ten? Among the ten. I don't see that among the ten that he killed. Right. No, you're right, Melissa. Oh,
Laurel Thomas:I got that. That they killed. That they killed. That's a good point, Melissa. Yes. You know, I will
Kat Lewis:say, the one thing, and kind of piggybacking off of what both of you guys are saying, um, I think the social commentary that she was making in a kind of maybe a post war society is What do we do with socially acceptable
Melissa Grace:crime?
Kat Lewis:Because there are several people, several characters who are quite self righteous about their murders. Um, and part of it was because, well they brought it Self righteous about
Micah Leydorf:the death that their actions brought about. Yes. That it was not their responsibility. That's true. Right. That's true, yeah, exactly. Like they literally termed it murder. Right. But
Kat Lewis:I think about this phenomenon where we are filming. In a modern society where we are more dedicated to filming drama or crime or fights or people drowning, right? Instead of jumping in, right? What's the social responsibility? And I think about that story of those two teenage boys who watched this man drown and they filmed it, and they were, they were charged with second degree murder and it was a whole uproar and it was like, okay, but how would we have absolved them? And what's the commentary around, should they go to prison or should they not? And so this idea of like, You know, society might write things off as, Oh, that's okay. But is it really? And what does it do to the soul of a person? And what does it do to society itself? I think she explored
Laurel Thomas:that well, without being preachy at all. Well,
Micah Leydorf:and then that's another thing, I guess, of literary technique. Even as we're talking about her social commentary, we talk about this often again, back to that whole idea of maybe show don't tell, and that's what we do as authors, or we have the privilege of doing is to show and not be preachy about maybe some of the truths, um, that we feel strongly about.
Yeah.
Micah Leydorf:And she let her characters tell the story. Right. That's good.
Laurel Thomas:That's really good.
Melissa Grace:Yeah.
Micah Leydorf:Well, thank you so much for this discussion, ladies. I think it's been great. Do we have any final housekeeping details? Kat, a keeper of all the things.
Kat Lewis:No, so I think we will, tag Rick Ludwig, and his book, The Soul of a Sleuth, in our show notes. Just shout out to Rick. We'll also, give a little bit of info about WriterCon, which is the Labor Day Writers Conference that we've been going to for a long time. In Oklahoma City. In Oklahoma City, and honestly, it is top, it's top rate. It is top notch. Like, if you're an author, you need to go. We have people from all over the world who converge on OKC. New Zealand, we had some New Zealand people. New Zealand, Canada, London. It was a great time. So we'll put some of that info in the show notes, but other than that, Do
you wanna to
Kat Lewis:give a little teaser for next time? Yeah. So, next time we are gonna be discussing, that quite controversial novel, 1984 by George or. And, it's a novel that I have actively, aggressively, assertively avoided. So, I am Okay, that's a lot of I am both dreading I'm dreading it. A lot of effort there, Kat. Yeah, it's a lot of effort to, uh. But one of the things that this podcast journey has taught me is that Usually the books that I have, I've given a label to have been the most impactful novels that I've read in a long time. So I don't want to read it, but I shall, and I probably will be better for it. So join us for 1984 next time. See ya. Bye guys.
