Stories That Change Us
Where great storytelling meets craft. Four writer-friends dive into the most iconic fiction of the last century—not just to admire it, but to dissect it. We uncover what makes these stories unforgettable: sharp characters, masterful plots, and the social undercurrents that give them staying power. The result? A lively, intergenerational conversation that sparks insights for writers at every stage. Whether you're dreaming of your debut or leveling up your next bestseller, this is your place to learn how great stories are made.
Stories That Change Us
Episode 13: The Count of Monte Cristo By Alexander Dumas
Epic, vengeful, and intoxicatingly rich—Alexandre Dumas’s The Count of Monte Cristo is a masterclass in storytelling. With sprawling narrative scope, intricate foreshadowing, and characters as vivid as the Parisian underworld itself, Dumas transforms a tale of betrayal into a symphony of revenge and redemption. His use of suspense, irony, and symbolic transformation keeps readers enthralled as Edmond Dantès evolves from naïve sailor to enigmatic avenger. Join us as we unravel how Dumas crafts a timeless saga where justice is never simple, vengeance is never clean, and fate itself bends to the will of one man determined to reclaim his life.
Question: what is a story that has changed your life?
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Young Sailor Edmund Dantes is on the brink of success-- promoted to captain and engaged to his beloved Mercedes. But a false accusation of being a Bonaparte spy has him thrown into the grim Chateau Di, without trial, where years of isolation nearly break him. In prison, Dantes befriends, Abbe Faria, a brilliant fellow inmate who educates him and reveals the location of a hidden treasure on an elusive island. After Faria dies, Dantes escapes, retrieves the treasure, and reinvents himself as the mysterious, fabulously wealthy Count of Monte Cristo. With cunning disguises, elaborate schemes and limitless resources, he sets out to destroy the men who betrayed him, unraveling their lives piece by piece. In the end, having achieved justice but seen its moral weight, Dante sails away leaving his fortune and embracing a new life guided by the words wait and hope.
Kat Lewis:Welcome to the Stories That Change Us Podcast. A podcast where four author friends read great fiction in order to write great fiction. My name is Kat Lewis and I'm joined by some of my amazing author friends, and we are just gonna round table and introduce ourselves.
Laurel Thomas:I'm Laurel Thomas and I write Young Adult Fantasy.
Melissa Grace:I'm Melissa Grace and I write inspirational fiction for the general
Micah Leydorf:market, and my name is Micah Leydorf and I write Christian inspirational fiction and Bible studies.
Kat Lewis:And my name is Kat Lewis, as I've said, and I write thrilling women's fiction and recently screenplays. That's a totally different medium that's been a little crazy to explore.
Micah Leydorf:We can't wait until someday we see your name on the big screen. Screenplay by Kat Lewis.
Kat Lewis:Listen from your lips to God's ears. Yes. Before it drives me crazy. But you know what, talking about screenplays, you know, one of the great things about this podcast is that we really do reveal a wide doctrine of great literature. And usually a marker great fiction is that somebody has thought to adapt it to film at some point.
Micah Leydorf:Yes.
Kat Lewis:And. The book that we're discussing today, the Count of Monte Cristo by Alexander Dumasss, is a fantastic example of a book that is epic and that has been adapted countless times.
Micah Leydorf:Right. I counted up and it was like, oh my gosh, this has been adapted over 50 times. Maybe because it's a French novel, so there are, you know, French versions and English versions and all those, but still it's just really, a testament to, again, like the appeal of a great story.
Kat Lewis:Yes.
Micah Leydorf:A really action packed epic story that has so many layers. Another really interesting thing that I came upon, which I kind of love, you know, a lot of times we have authors who it's like, oh, they were rejected, like 70 times before someone finally checked. I'm like, yes, there's hope. But, Dumas was almost an instant success. He was a success as a playwright first, and then as a novelist. And again, the count of Monte Kristo was adapted over 50 times, but his works have been adapted over 200 times
Laurel Thomas:Wow.
Micah Leydorf:To film versions.
Kat Lewis:That's ridiculous.
Micah Leydorf:And again, the count of Monte Cristo as timeless as it is, is not even, his most popular. I mean, the three Musketeers. Who doesn't know? You that story.
Kat Lewis:And that's, that's a great point because when people think of Alexander Dumas, I do think that they think immediately the three of Musketeers, which is talk about like tone, like novel tone could not be any different, right? Maybe still, that's still like revenge thing. What happened in his life that the theme of revenge was big for him?
Micah Leydorf:Oh, but, well, I, I don't know about the revenge, but I did find it fascinating that he's actually of Afro-Caribbean descent. So he was
Kat Lewis:Really?
Micah Leydorf:Yeah, so his grandmother was an enslaved person in Haiti. And then his father was brought over to France and had this really successful military career. He was the first person of mixed race descent to reach the rank of general. So the swashbuckling and the sword fighting and all of that was kind of natural to Alexander. But, one of the things I loved was in the book was just, oh my goodness, all the detail and all the authenticity. Now I know that we have this dis discrepancy, you and I Kat, about that. You love Bridgeton and I hate Bridgerton.
Laurel Thomas:We're just gonna go there.
Kat Lewis:Yeah. Yeah.
Micah Leydorf:One of the things I hate about Bridgerton is like all the anachronisms that's like, okay, only people in 2024. Talk like this, and don't pretend that people in Regency England use these phrases or acted in this way, or like, you know, got it on all the time
Laurel Thomas:You said that too.
Kat Lewis:Listen, wow. Wow. That's, I'm not editing that out. My God. That is staying.
Micah Leydorf:And what I love about this is it's so authentic to the period. So you say like, oh, well give an example of dialogue. Okay? Just open up the book and like point, and you would get just this beautiful, perfect dialogue that somebody in 2024 without a lot of research would never write It just sounds exactly perfect and on tone. And that was what was so beautiful. And that's what I hate about Bridgerton. It's wrong tone. It's terrible. Anyway, but I just loved it's just, I can't even replicate it because it's so foreign to how we speak. But didn't you guys love that?
Kat Lewis:I will say of the novels that we have read, like of the classic literature that we have read I thought that the Count Monte Cristo had the strongest dialogue flow. It was conversational. Sometimes classic literature lends itself to like soliloquy or internal monologues. But every bit of action was character to character. That dialogue was revealing what was happening in the scene. Which actually makes sense if you think about,
Micah Leydorf:Because he was a playwright, that's why. You have to put it out there on the stage. And so, yeah, he's the master of dialogue. His dialogue was so beautiful and it told the story and, I mean, he did great setting too, but his dialogue was amazing
Melissa Grace:And he never left the theme of revenge. And this is Melissa. Just coming through the novel and like you said, it's like it was always about revenge. He didn't chase rabbits, he didn't get off topic. It's why it's a 500 plus page book that works because the structure is excellent.
Micah Leydorf:I feel like Dumas was like the original Netflix because you feel like, like, oh, do you wanna, you know, an old joke, do you wanna watch a 10 hour movie? Like, no way. Okay. How about we divide it up into ten one hour episodes and you watch it all in one sitting and it's like. Yes, sign me up. So I just felt like that. I was like, oh, do you wanna listen to a 47 hour novel? Like, um, yeah I do because every single chapter leaves me on a cliffhanger that I can't wait to see what's gonna happen next.
Kat Lewis:You know what? I will say that was one of the major strengths of this book and maybe why it's so easy for it to be adapted. Because every single chapter takes you through that full story cycle, right? Beginning, middle, climax, end. Like every single chapter.
Micah Leydorf:He was ahead of his time, like a day.
Kat Lewis:He really was.
Laurel Thomas:Well, even his time in prison. It was riveting and it was rich, and to me, it brought so much of that character arc to life in that young man. Because when you start out here he is a young man, full of promise. He's in love, he is getting married, and then everything just goes sideways. So I'm like where are we gonna go from?
Micah Leydorf:Right. How did you make it interest? The man is in a cell with no other people. For 14 years. How is that an interesting novel?
Laurel Thomas:And yet that relationship with the Abbey was so rich. Mm-hmm. And so precious, and you saw how it was really redemptive. Which, actually, when I started it, I was like, I hate these stories where you have a sweet guy and then everything falls apart and it's not his fault. But I mean, that time in the prison, it crystallized things inside of the main character. And then even in through the vengeance, I mean, he had that richness that made it so much more than blind rage. I'm gonna make you pay.
Kat Lewis:And I feel like this is a kind of a good entry point to just launch into the discussion. So let's talk about quotes from this book and there's so much character to character action that's revealing plot, tension, character development, and author's voice. What's a quote that stands out to you guys as an example of any of those things?
Micah Leydorf:As much as I loved it, and it was beautiful language. And again, I love the dialogue, but there weren't just like those quotes that just stuck with you. I would say the one that did a little bit was at the end, the very end where he said, hope and wait.
Melissa Grace:Yeah.
Micah Leydorf:It is a novel about revenge, right? And there's that part of us, that kind of base human nature that takes satisfaction in people getting what's coming to them. It doesn't just leave it there. It's not like that there's not a cost, there's not a human cost to the person who's exacting the revenge. That there's not a regret later. That there isn't beauty in showing grace and showing forgiveness. I mean, even though it's minor.'cause again, it is very strong revenge, revenge, revenge. But I love that it ended on this note of hope and wait. You know and recognizing, oh, maybe I'm not really actually God's arm of vengeance. Maybe, God is the person who should enact that. So that was my quote, just the hope and wait.
Laurel Thomas:Well, there were so many from the Abbey. Because the thing that struck me was not so much a quote. That, he wrote on pieces of fabric and when he couldn't get enough of the soot from the walls, he would use his own blood. And I can't remember what he used for the pen. I think it was, was it fishbone?
Micah Leydorf:I think it was fish bones. Fish bones.
Laurel Thomas:And yet he was proficient in how many languages? And he had schooled himself. It was like, so what's our problem about learning or trying to tackle a very difficult task? And I think that was so clear in the prison that this was a man of enormous nobility
Kat Lewis:And he was determined to retain his dignity. I think that's one of the many lessons that the Abbeyy taught Edmund Dante in prison. That the truly strong soul will cling to that dignity.'cause that's what this place is trying to strip from you. And from that dignity brings forth a lot of other things. My quote Laurel, it's kind of similar to your idea of if he can learn all of this in prison, what is my problem? You know, learning a language, learning a new career skill, learning the craft of writing, like really what's my problem? I think this is such a dialogue heavy novel. That there's actually, I feel like a lot of wisdom spoken throughout the characters. And you're just trying to get through the story, so you can't sit with every zinger that's given to you. But the one thing that I think speaks to one level of the thematic message that this author is bringing forth to the reader. And, um, I think this is the Abbe as well, and he's saying,"What would you not have accomplished if you had been free, possibly nothing at all. The overflow of my brain would probably, in a state of freedom, have evaporated in a thousand follies. Misfortune is needed to bring the treasures of human intellect to light".
Laurel Thomas:Yeah.
Melissa Grace:Ooh, that one's good. I forgot that.
Kat Lewis:Yeah, that quote is wrapped in a myriad of really wonderful and deep conversations. I think one of the reasons that this book is so successful is because the count is, is not just a persona that Edmund Dante puts on. He becomes the count in prison. He becomes the count through his intellect.
Laurel Thomas:Yes. That's good.
Kat Lewis:And through his, his elevated philosophy and his elevated understanding of human interaction. And he would not have become that man. Yeah. Without this horrific experience. And then there is that redemptive thing at the very end where he's bought the prison and he's like, I'm gonna turn this into a place for good. So then we see that the count is not just this evil facade for him. It's not just this, it's once the revenge has been complete, it will no longer know what to do with himself. It's like he's taken all of these skills learned in this dark place and he will turn it into a place for redemption. But it's very interesting, I think in a 21st society where freedom is abundant and is apparent. And it's like, what are the thousand follies that I allow to distract me from real and worthy endeavors? And, maybe on like a spiritual level, it's like, why do bad things happen to good people? Sometimes misfortune focuses our life. In a way that freedom and levity maybe blinds us to.
Micah Leydorf:Right. That's just a hard but deep human truth of like, you think about Edmond, Dante and what life he would've lived. He would've been a sailor, he would've been happy, just an uneducated sailor on the sea, and you'd be like, oh yeah, that's great. Too bad that this bad thing happened to you. And instead he becomes a much richer, deeper soul and much more affecting of lives and creating good and bad. His life was so much bigger because of the suffering that he went through as isn't that like true of all of us,
Melissa Grace:Little different direction. The quote that stuck with me was his first boss, when he is facing financial ruin and getting ready to take his life, he tells his son,"i'm doing this for you because blood washes away dishonor". And it's in the first 25% of the book and it's almost like it's a statement of theme for the whole book. And I thought that was interesting.'cause I just, I really love when an author can distill theme down to a few words, and especially have a character say it.
Kat Lewis:How do you see that that theme was carried throughout the book? In what ways do we see blood washing away dishonor in this book?
Melissa Grace:Just through revenge. This is his life's mission. Morrell sees it as his own blood washing away his own dishonor and the way I interpreted was that Dantes sees everybody else's blood washing away his dishonor.
Kat Lewis:Well, and even to piggyback off of that, you say that and I immediately thought that why was Edmund Dantes really sent to prison? It was the Villefour decided that I am going to sacrifice this ignorant, illiterate fishermen to save the honor of my family.
Melissa Grace:You were very generous to him.
Kat Lewis:Oh, am I?
Melissa Grace:'Cause it's not his family. It's him
Kat Lewis:Ha
Melissa Grace:Villefour, it's like he, it's, it's him. And he wants to say himself.
Laurel Thomas:And Dante's had a lot of potential. I mean, he was getting ready to be promoted as a young man to a captain of the ship. So he had a lot on the ball. He had a bright future. He wasn't like a suffering slave. He was smart. He related well to people. He was a good leader even though he was very young. So. I mean he lost a lot.
Kat Lewis:He did.
Laurel Thomas:It's painful for me at the beginning to see that. You see that depth of that maturity start to come through that older mentor that is just so rich. I thought it was interesting. He said compression is needed to explode gunpowder. You know? Mm. What is it on the inside of us that contains the power to ignite, but it requires compression. It requires conflict. It requires.
Micah Leydorf:We know that as authors, right?
Melissa Grace:Just like a good story.
Micah Leydorf:Nobody's gonna write a story about everything going super well. We're like, okay, well what, what problems can we throw into? What problems can we do this to make this interesting? To make our character evolve? Like you can't have a character arc if there is no, like you say, pressure. There's no right. And I mean,
Laurel Thomas:he said first he says misfortune is needed to bring to light the treasures of the human intellect, which is interesting. And then he goes on the next sentence is compression is needed to explode gunpowder. So I just think, wow, what compression will build or will cause us to build that actually will spark something large or something life changing or, and which of course it did. Look at the men, the families who were impacted after he got outta prison.
Kat Lewis:That's good. Um, next question, ladies. What literary elements were executed well in this novel, or did Alexander Dumas do in a fresh way in this novel? And how did the execution of these elements directly influence the plot?
Micah Leydorf:So again, I just go back to the dialogue. I just think that was just the star of the show and just so well done. But again, he did that so well. He did the tension, the building of the tension and, like the know doing those cliffhangers at the end of each chapter, and like I say, the, the dialect, those are the two literary elements that. Stuck out to me.
Kat Lewis:I'll say piggybacking off of the serialization. You know, in order to have a successfully serialized novel, you have to really nail your story structure. And one of the things that I've learned from my screenwriting classes is the power of the midpoint. And one of my screenwriting instructors described the midpoint as the life changing reversal in the story. And so one of the reasons I, I've always loved the kind of Monte Cristo and that I think it's easy to adapt or it draws people to adapt into a movie, is because the midpoint in the novel is it's not just the change in the story or the hinge in the story. It's what's the reversal of situation in the story. And we go from Edmund Dante being imprisoned to Edmund Dante being free. And it's such a sharp pivot. And I can see those pivots in every single chapter. Oh yeah. For sure. And I didn't realize that this was a novel that was initially released in parts. But I can so see it. But I've always thought in the novel and in the movie, it's like, man, talk about absolutely turning this character in a different direction.
Micah Leydorf:Even the sub characters. Again, as who he's weaving this elaborate plot of revenge on these three different characters and we know what's coming. But he does such a good job, like you said, about each one. It's like, oh, like everything's going okay. Oh no. Somebody's been poisoned in their house, like, oh no. Like, oh no, they were stabbed. Wait, no they're not. It's totally, yeah. Netflix, it's sort of like what someone else has been, you know, like they committed a murder we didn't even know about years ago, and it might be revealed and, you know, talked about reversals. There's this constant
Laurel Thomas:Mm, that's good.
Micah Leydorf:Tension and reversal. Yes. Like, oh, they're at the top of their game. They've got a$5 million credit in their pocket. Oh wait, bandit stole it. It just goes back and forth and back and forth over and over again.
Melissa Grace:Mm. And you used the word weave. Mm-hmm. And especially with this huge of a cast of characters, I mean, how hard is that, yeah to weave all this together. And I don't know exactly what, and you all can help me here. What literary element this? Um, I think just plot, and conflict where, okay. Early in the novel, Edmund Dante's in prison. He told himself it was the hatred of men, not the vengeance of God for the reason he's in prison. He doomed these unknown men to all the tortures. His firing imagination could contrive, but even the cruelest ones seemed too mild and too short for them for after the torment would come death. And this didn't dawn on me until today looking back. The first man
Micah Leydorf:Danglar?
Melissa Grace:Danglar, he fell into a trap of greed, right?'cause of his greed.
Micah Leydorf:Kinda like a seven, right?
Melissa Grace:And it's like, yeah, yeah. It's so interesting because it's like, I think of dante as like the original Batman or the original Iron Man.
Micah Leydorf:Oh, there you go.
Melissa Grace:He's got all these look,
Micah Leydorf:they've got all these things. It's got a little bit seven. It's got a little Batman. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Melissa Grace:Just like this person who's kind
Kat Lewis:of rich vigilante.
Melissa Grace:Yes. And kind of supernaturally calm and, okay. I'm immune to that poison and I speak 27 languages. Oh, you want a do I can, you know, I'm the, I can shoot all the cards. That's right. Exactly right. But somehow just all of their punishments fit their crimes. And it was just a story just so well woven.
Micah Leydorf:Yes. Mm-hmm. Isn't it amazing how all the characters were fully fleshed out. And actually I know that it's been adapted 50 times already, but it feels like it would make a great serialization. All of those adaptations are only like two hours long, so they don't even touch the depth of the story. So this, this story could totally, you should do screen right now.
Kat Lewis:I'll say the 2024 miniseries with Sam Claflin. I think is actually one of the few serialized episodic Oh, okay. Versions of This's done well, yeah, but only recently and so, and I haven't seen that yet, so I haven't we've yet to judge that one.
Laurel Thomas:But is Sam.
Kat Lewis:It is Sam Claflin, and I am a big Sam Claflin fan.
Laurel Thomas:Me too fan for sure. Um, oh yeah.
Kat Lewis:Oh yeah. He's fantastic. But, I actually think, to what you're talking about, Melissa, I wonder if it's like one tension, right? Mm-hmm. I think that's what he does so wonderfully is he flushes out these characters to such a degree that we are like. Is he gonna let them get away with it? How is justice coming? Right? I will say one of the things that I thought that he could have done that I don't think he did with any character at all, was I was like, okay, who's going to be the redeemed evil villain? Who gets away and he kills every single one of them.
Laurel Thomas:You know, I think it was amazing that when he was talking to the Abbeyy, the Abbeyy, says to him, what prevented you from just jumping out and clunking the prison keeper over the head? And Dante says, well, it was just'cause it never occurred to me. And so he starts talking about vengeance and it's such a foreshadowing of the intricate way that Dantes goes through each of those schemes, right? To bring vengeance. They're very thoughtful, they're very strategic, and they were not the impulsive hit'em over the head.
Micah Leydorf:Because that wouldn't have been bad enough for them.
Melissa Grace:That's right. They would not have suffered long enough if you,
Kat Lewis:you know what I will say, Laurel, you did mention something about Edmund Dante that I thought was interesting that I was listening to, um, his conversation with, about the letter and the office when he is being interrogated. And, you were like, Edmond Dantes is not a 19th century Pollyanna which is how he's really shown. He's shown as this kind of charismatic, happy go lucky, great with people. It almost seems like his good fortune is just luck. But in his conversation with Villefore, it was a small little sentence that I caught that I thought was interesting. Villefore hands Edmund Dante the letter that condemns his life and Edmond is studying it. And Villefore notices the spark of quiet intellect, right? Mm-hmm. That it stands out to Villefore. It becomes a threat to Villefore.'cause he's like, this is not a stupid young man. And so I thought that was an interesting character foreshadowing of, Dumass creates an audience expectation of man, they just threw this poor chipper guy into prison and it's gonna destroy his soul. And it's like, how does that that thread of quiet intellect, right? We just see that woven so beautifully throughout. That's good. The story.
Laurel Thomas:That's good.
Kat Lewis:Yeah. Um, okay. So, um, what social commentary has transcended the life of this book?
Micah Leydorf:You know, I'm not sure with a lot of the books that we have studied, there really is like a big theme that is like, we look at Dickens, the Christmas Carol. I mean, it's the story. It's like, if time is precious and embrace the beauty, that's, that's what has resonated with people. I feel like with Dumass, it's so masterful and it's got elements of like truth and redemption, but I feel like it's the storytelling that is what has transcended. It's the reason why it's been adapted, because the strength of the story itself. I don't feel like it's the message. Like, the quote that I like so much is saying all of human history can be condensed down to this hope and wait. I feel like, okay, that's a good story, but that's not what people take away and remember in this story. What they remember is it was a really cool story about this Batman pipe character from the 1840s.
Melissa Grace:And I agree. It's just so well told. And one of the things that really stood out to me and how he told this story so well is how he used time clocks. Like oh, if Sinbad the sailor doesn't get Mounsier Morrell the money in just the right time, he's going to kill himself. Just so many instances; in the prison the first time before he comes into contact with the Abby. He is about to die because he's quit eating. You know, the time clock just right before all is lost there's a breakthrough. And I think that is one thing that just keeps readers turning, turning and turning.
Micah Leydorf:Well, it reminds me like like Star Wars or something. Again with Star Wars, we love the story, but I don't think it's because there's some great message about fathers and sons or, you know what I mean? I feel like it's just great storytelling and I feel like that's what's transcendent. It's just like really good storytelling, just a thrilling epic, but layered and not shallow at all. Has enough of those things to keep us engaged and
Kat Lewis:I love social commentary. It's my bread and butter. I can take a Pixar movie and pull social truths out of it. So, I think a huge theme in this story is choose your friends well. How would his fortunes have been reversed if Fernarnd had never been in his life. It's interesting, especially in the first part of the novel is all these other characters are looking at Danglar and Fernarnd and going these are pretty shady characters to be hanging around this go lucky guy. And he just cannot see. If he had rejected the Abbey's friendship in prison. If he had rejected Luigi Vampa's friendship. You know these characters that are pointing him back to truth. And even these friends who destroy his life, you know. The power of friends I think like a very subtle thing.'Cause even you look at the relationship between Danglar and Villefore, right? And they're kind of pals and corruption, yet they can't trust each other. They're stabbing each other in the back at every turn. And it's like, okay, would the count have even been able to succeed if those two men had just said, we're in it together come hell or high water. Just those kinds of questions. The power of relationships and the intricacy of relationships.
Micah Leydorf:I think that is definitely a super strong theme and great truth from the story. It's a great truth. That's just illustrated really beautifully. You're totally right about that. I mean even the last redeeming part where the count has become almost dehumanized from his isolation and not allowing himself to love or be connected to anybody. And at the very end the love of Haiti, his slave slash adopted daughter, which makes it sound really terrible.
Kat Lewis:Yeah, it sounds really shady.
Micah Leydorf:But it's really beautiful. But anyway, just
Kat Lewis:You had to be there.
Micah Leydorf:It's like, oh, that sounds cringe on all levels. But actually I think it definitely shows, which again, another theme that's really relevant for today of that we need each other. That we need community,
Laurel Thomas:And other people bring a new present and a new future. You know, the potential. That's good. Right. So this was a large season of his life, but it's not gonna be all his life. And that, I don't know if he meant that to be thematic, but
Kat Lewis:Absolutely. But that is not your entire life, and if you do not have people who are shining that light and guiding you into a new reality, revenge will destroy you.
Laurel Thomas:That because Dantes was a victim, but the Abbey would not let him go there. It to me that is what made the novel like rich and even plotting the vengeance and all of that he would not let him go in that place of victimhood. I don't know whether he planned that to be a theme either. But I know personally in a place where there's been great injustice, the worst thing that can happen is to become a victim and to receive that victim kind of thinking that now I am a powerless pawn of fate. And, Dantes was proactive, right? He left prison with a plan. And not with one, but several. So I mean, he didn't go into the whole victim thing even though he was a victim. I
Micah Leydorf:think it also really showed like, there's so many terrible characters in this novel and so much evil and so much just showing of human nature gone amuck. But you don't leave the novel feeling like even though the majority of people are behaving in despicable ways. You feel like those few people who are a shining light are just that like that. Makes you like, feel hopeful for human nature and the world. It's enough that there's a few, there's an Abbey or there's the Morrell family or Yes. Even if all these other people are bad actors, it's like no, there are people who are lights in the world.
Melissa Grace:Yes. Well, and I think the count is a mix. He's a good blend. One of the first things that caught my attention was when the Abbey died and he kept trying to close his eyes. Dante kept trying to close his eyes and, The interesting, every day, fur, he spoke of the immensity of the treasure explaining to Dante's all the good a man could do to his friends with such wealth. Dante's thought of how much harm a man could do to his enemies. Mm-hmm. So he has always been. He was always that conflicted character.
Micah Leydorf:What did you see as the significance of him trying to close his eyes? I'm interested in that
Melissa Grace:Because
Laurel Thomas:He didn't want him to see,
Melissa Grace:He didn't want him to see what he was doing. How he was going to use that fortune that he had given to him talking about how much good he could do in the world. And he is like, I'm gonna go, I'm, I'm gonna go take,
Laurel Thomas:after they throw me in the ocean,
Melissa Grace:I'm going, yeah,
Micah Leydorf:I'm exact vengeance
Melissa Grace:and I don't want you to Yeah. See it. I don't want your eyes looking at me when I'm thinking about this. That's good. So he's not, you know, he, and that's a, I mean, that's a good character, a complex character that is fighting within themselves and not categorically good or bad.
Micah Leydorf:Well,'cause that's what we are as humans. it's the line of good and evil runs straight through the heart of every man. It's not out there. It's not that we are fighting something out there. We're fighting in our own hearts.
Melissa Grace:Well put.
Kat Lewis:Well, what a fantastically epic novel to read. I loved this novel in high school and I love it still. I am over here with dazzling images of shipwrecks and duels.
Micah Leydorf:Hidden treasures.
Kat Lewis:Hidden treasures.
Micah Leydorf:Prison escapes. Yes. Yes.
Kat Lewis:Um, I do think this will be a fun one if we want to maybe do a story structure review of one of the film adaptations. Oh. That might be a little sassy project to do because the story is so complex. I do think that when you look at it as a whole, it could be very difficult to figure out what's the true midpoint of the story. And what's the true climax of the story. And what's the true catalytic event of the story. So that might be a fun little project for us. But, I do believe the next book on the docket is Dracula.
Micah Leydorf:Oh.
Kat Lewis:And, um, shocking Choice. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll be shocked at whose recommendation that book is. I will not out her right now,
Melissa Grace:but the one who has lectured her children about how horrible horror films are that one.
Kat Lewis:Yeah, that one. That one. But stay tuned for a riveting discussion of Dracula. I know that there's another film adaptation of Dracula that has recently come out.
Micah Leydorf:Nosferatu,
Kat Lewis:Nosferatu.
Melissa Grace:I don't know if we're brave enough to watch that or if we will.
Kat Lewis:Yeah, not, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm brave enough to do that, but join us next time for Stories That Change Us. Thanks guys.
