Banter, Misdirection, and Romantic Tension: Writing Lessons from Much Ado About Nothing

Sparkling, mischievous, and exquisitely sharp—William Shakespeare’s Much Ado About Nothing is a triumph of wit and emotional dexterity. Through rapid-fire dialogue, verbal sparring, and strategic misdirection, Shakespeare transforms rumor, pride, and misunderstanding into both comedy and consequence. His deft use of banter as character development, parallel romances, and tonal shifts between levity and betrayal reveal a precise command of pacing and dramatic contrast. Join us as we unpack how Much Ado About Nothing endures by balancing laughter with vulnerability—and what modern authors can learn from Shakespeare’s mastery of dialogue, structure, and romantic tension to craft stories that delight while still cutting deep.

Question: what is a story that has changed your life?

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Transcript

0:45

The sun soaked town of Messina, love and deception are never far apart. Hero and Claudio are young lovers ready to marry, while the witty Beatrice and charming Benedick are locked in a battle of words. When Don Jon, the evil brother of the beloved local Prince devises a plan to manipulate the perception of Hero and Claudio's young love, the stage is set for comedy, confusion, and chaos. Hero is publicly shamed, and when Claudio abandons her at the altar, Beatrice demands justice. All the while Benedick, torn between love and loyalty begins to confront his own feelings. Through a series of clever ruses, mistaken identities, and overheard conversations, truths are revealed. Misunderstandings are resolved. And love triumphs, though not without a few bruised egos along the way, Beatrice and Benedick finally admit their love, and Hero and Claudio reconcile. Proving that honesty, courage, and a little clever trickery can restore harmony in the end.

Kat Lewis 1:58

Welcome to Stories That Change Us, a podcast with four authors who read great fiction to write great fiction. I'm so excited to introduce our stellar panelist today. Let's go around the room and introduce ourselves.

Laurel Thomas 2:15

My name is Laurel Thomas and I write fantasy.

Melissa Grace 2:18

My name is Melissa Grace and I write inspirational fiction for the general market.

Micah Leydorf 2:25

My name is Micah Leydorf and I write faith-based speculative fiction and Bible studies.

Kat Lewis 2:30

And my name is Kat Lewis and I write romantic thrillers and screenplays, and I'll be your host for this episode today. You know, we're always trying to keep it fresh and sassy for our listeners, and so we thought who is the greatest wordsmith of all time? Who is one of the most filmed authors of all time, and we just thought to take it back to the great, the inimitable Shakespeare. But. Keep your Romeo and Juliet. We don't want any Hamlet today. No tragedies. It's all lighthearted. We are going to be analyzing and reviewing Much Ado About Nothing. And let me tell you, I do think that there are other Shakespearean plays that get a lot more just press Much Ado About Nothing is delightful. It is for all my witty people out there, those who love banter, those who love a true enemies to lover's plot. Much Ado About Nothing is for you. So,

Micah Leydorf 3:32

Also, super relevant. We've been trying to do the movie adaptations and of course, the Kenneth Brannagh adaptation, that's the classic in 1993 with Emma Thompson. And then there was a more recent one that I didn't even know about until we decided to do this play that Josh Whedon did. Those are with the Shakespearean language, but then just in a kind of more modern setting. But also the new romantic comedy with Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeney, Anyone But You, I did not realize when I watched that movie that oh my gosh, this is Much Ado About Nothing. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So super relevant and super current even now after 500 years.

Kat Lewis 4:11

No, it's crazy. I didn't realize that Shakespeare is literally the most filmed author. BB c put out some statistics that said that there are over 500 Shakespearean plays performed every year, and Shakespeare holds the Guinness World Record of 1800 book to movie adaptations. I mean, he really is an author who for some reason we just keep going back to his content because he did it so freaking well.

Micah Leydorf 4:38

It's unbelievable.

Kat Lewis 4:39

It's crazy.

Micah Leydorf 4:40

Unbelievable.

Kat Lewis 4:41

It's crazy. And you know, Much Ado About Nothing has a fantastic 1993 Adaptation directed by Kenneth Brannagh and the cast in that film is stocked. You want Denzel Washington speaking some Shakespearean language to you? Woo.

Laurel Thomas 4:57

Oh, yeah.

Kat Lewis 4:58

It's delightful. That film is so worth your time. But it's just crazy how you can take language that people would consider dated. And you just, you give it the right treatment and you treat the story right, and all of a sudden it blooms into this film that you'll watch two hours of genuine true to text, Shakespearean, prose, and you're just engaged and you're enthralled, and you understand the story. So I'm excited to kind of get into this particular story because it's sassy. But, let's just jump right into our first question here. Again, this whole play is surprisingly ripe for a literary conversation. So what is a quote that stood out to you guys as a good example of character development author, voice, a quote that sets up the theme. Were there any quotes that really stood out to you as just juicy?

Micah Leydorf 5:50

Okay, I'll just jump in'cause I can't wait to hear what Melissa's are'cause hers are always my favorite. She's always got like the, the perfect craft and also her dialogue that she writes that she is so evident that, she has such a good eye about that. But, I just go with the super obvious, right? So. It was the, the song that they sing and in the, again, in the Kenneth Brannagh movie version, they started off with it. You know,"It's sigh more ladies, sigh no more. Men are deceivers ever". Um, but that's what I love about Shakespeare is it makes it so beautiful. So, again, I'm gonna jump into the ongoing Bridgerton debate between Kat and I that she loves and I hate. It's like, okay, if you say it now, you're just like, men suck. And it's like, well, you know what, say it a little bit better.

Kat Lewis 6:36

Yeah, there are some just a plus in your face, just trash talk in this. And to your point of it the song being like, man, our deceivers, there's a quote super early in the, into act one where Beatrice says something to the effect of,"I would rather hear my dog. Bark at a crow than to hear a man swear he loves me". And I'm like, man, say you're sick of men and romantic relationships without saying you're sick of men and romantic relationships. That's so good. It just, it just, it's it sizzles and there's lots of kind of, oh my gosh.

Melissa Grace 7:12

It wrap Took her character too. It still sles.

Micah Leydorf 7:15

It's still sles. And this is. Again, what I love is that I, I love that. Yes, this is real. Like this was contemporary literature. So Shakespeare is not like projecting on another time what he imagines it to be like. He's reflecting his own time and I love,'cause I think that we maybe imagine that women back in the fifteen hundreds, like didn't have a voice or couldn't be powerful and strong. It's like, um, no begged to differ.

Kat Lewis 7:44

He gives women a very strong, clear presence. Even hero who isn't my favorite character. She is not a weeping willow by any means. Even though she and Beatrice depict two very different sides of that feminine conversation.

Micah Leydorf 8:00

So I guess the other example of The Chosen, you know, that's, that's such a, you know, kind of phenomenon right now. And again, it's very interesting that you taking this core story that's thousands of years old, but then actually giving them fresh voices, right? And they're not trying to make it sound just like it was. They're trying to make it a little bit fresh. And my husband and I were talking and he was saying, oh, um, you know, this woman, she kind of spoke up to her husband and that probably never would've happened then because he probably would've like you know, slapped her thinking. No, not necessarily. Like, it doesn't mean that you know that women, because we have this idea that they were even like, you know, oppressed. Yes. And they had a different role in, in culture. But that doesn't mean that they did not find ways to have influence. Or they didn't have influence. Or that they weren't strong or they weren't sassy or,

Kat Lewis 8:49

well, and I would even say, you know, I remember years ago I took a Queenship Studies class trying to finish up my degree, and one of the things that I walked away with. From a conversation was that, savvy women, historically, they found very interesting ways to use their voice. But also kings are not interested in the weeping willow in the corner.

Laurel Thomas 9:13

Cool. I mean, think of Anne Boleyn I mean, hello. She was not a little wallflower. She attracted a king.

Kat Lewis 9:22

Yeah. I am a huge fan of Catherine Aragorn, who was his first wife. And the only reason he was even looking at other women is because he could not have kids with her. But she was this strong, incredibly well-spoken self-possessed, ruler of another nation. I mean, honestly, she was Henry the Eight's love match in every true sense. The tragic thing is that they could not have kids,

Micah Leydorf 9:47

and it sounds a screenplay Kat that maybe you should, you feel passionate about story,

Kat Lewis 9:56

go sit down. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Okay, so my favorite quote comes from Benedict, and this is towards the three quarters of the way through, and he tells Beatrice when they both finally look at each other and decide, we are going to be in love, right? He says,"thou and I are two wise to woo peaceably". I think that puts a period on the end of what you're saying, Micah, as far as intelligent men, they want intelligent, witty women. And I just love how he is. Like, if we were gonna fall in love, it was gonna be because of a war. It was gonna be because of great drama that brought us together.

Micah Leydorf 10:36

And again, I, I love that because I love, it's the human interaction.'cause I, yeah, like, you know, Kat, you love to write the action and you're so good at it, you know, these thriller action stories. I'm like, oh, you know, there was fights and whatever. Like, oh, there was a deceit. But no, no, I want the, I want the witty banter between, I want the love interest, I want that human interaction between them. Those also, those friends. I mean, the most hilarious scene, the classic scene was where the friends conspire to help them to overcome their pride. So you think about like how much we love Pride and Prejudice, right? But Shakespeare does in two hours what it takes Pride and Prejudice, you know? Or at least the B, B, C, like six hours.

Kat Lewis 11:15

Okay. But what about you, Laurel, and Melissa? Any quotes really just stood out to you as excellent?

Melissa Grace 11:23

Mine is kind of plucked out of all the way in Act five and it's Borachio, the bad servant.

Micah Leydorf 11:31

Melissa, you always pull out who thought is where.

Melissa Grace 11:39

Yeah. You know, he's talking to Leonato and Claudio about how he was able to deceive them into thinking that Hero was being unfaithful, yes. And he says, I have deceived your very eyes. What your wisdom could not discover these shallow fools have brought to light. Who in night overheard, now confessing to this man, how Don Jon, your brother, incensed me to slander the lady Hero". And I may be wrong, but I thought it was the closest to like a little theme encapsulated.

Laurel Thomas 12:14

You know, it is the theme over and over and over. Over that people make false assumptions with the wrong information.

Micah Leydorf 12:23

That's great.'cause that is something, as authors that we talk about that you need to have your theme stated and by a third character. Right.

Melissa Grace 12:29

Right, right. Not main character. If you follow Save the Cat, they say do it like in the first four to 5%, not in the last scene like William Shakespeare did, but we cut him lots of slack so.

Micah Leydorf 12:41

Well, this is a play and not a novel. It's,

Kat Lewis 12:44

I would debate that because I would even say that the song, is the theme stated because what's the greatest fear of all of these characters? Is being proven to be a fool in love.

Laurel Thomas 12:55

So the whole title"Much Ado About Nothing" is a play on words that has to do with overhearing gossip. The N-O-T-I-N-G is, is a play in those days it, it was pronounced like nothing or no thing. So it had to do with gossip and overhearing gossip. It had to do with, you know, there is kind of fun deception and then there's serious deception that has incredible consequences. But it is, you see that theme of deception over and over and over. So like a game.

Kat Lewis 13:31

That's so, wow. I'm actually really glad that you are bringing those pieces together because I could have lived my whole life and not cared about the meaning of the title, but that's how intentional Shakespeare is, he's like,

Laurel Thomas 13:44

yes. And that all, if you look at our culture, think of how many times we hear something and we're sure that we know exactly what they're saying. Yeah. But we have no clue. Right. And we're making these assumptions. I mean, you see it all over social media. Anyway. The, so the false assumptions. But it's interesting because some are like not so bad and they're kind of cute deceptions, but the one with Don John is serious. Yeah. So anyway, I, I think that when we were talking about 15 hundreds, how does that kind of story endure so many of his stories? I think much of them are universals. They're based on universals in human nature. And we love that because we see that how that hurts people.

Micah Leydorf 14:34

Well, again, as writers, if we're here looking at this great literature to learn how to write great literature, that's a lesson to us. Okay, so what do you know? If we want our stories to have impact, the more universal, the more relatable.

Kat Lewis 14:47

So, ladies, let's move on to our second question, which is, what literary elements were executed well or in a fresh way in this screenplay or this play, and how did that execution influence the plot?

Laurel Thomas 15:01

Well, mainly, Beatrice and, and what was his name? Be Benedict. They're memorable because of their banter and you know, their banter. To me it's how does that endure? Like we know exactly what they're saying and it's going from bad to worse. But, there's a lot of imagery. For one thing, you know, which maybe the imagery at that time was, maybe there was more cultural, I don't know. But we see the imagery, we, you know, in the banter, it does help us understand, the fact that these two people have made a vow practically in blood, that they're not going to fall in love, which of course is a trope because we know they will.

Micah Leydorf 15:49

I think that what I picked up actually answers the question that you just posed, Laurel, which is, is the humor. So I'm like, why does this relate to us? Why do we remember it? Because it is hilarious. Funny, you just love the humor of that situation. So again, I'm thinking about Taming of the Shrew. I don't remember Taming of the Shrew as being quite as funny, I think of as Much Ado About Nothing as being hilarious.

Kat Lewis 16:14

I agree. And I think from like a screenwriting perspective it's like what can you take that's tangible and that's visible. I think that in Much Ado About Nothing every single character is larger than life. Every single character sizzles, even the ridiculous captain of the guard, what was his name?

Melissa Grace 16:31

Dog Berry. Dog Berry needs some respect.

Kat Lewis 16:33

Dog Berry is so absurd. And we remember him because of his absurdity. Um, who said this quote? That you wanna make your characters do and say, and believe and dress and eat in the ways that we all really actually quietly do and believe and wish that we were bold enough to Right. Instead of being kind of silenced and encased in what we consider social appropriateness, right? Really, I wanna stuff these last two cookies into my face and not say thank you. You know, I almost feel like Much Ado About Nothing was his bet the farm play, because every single character, even Don John, is sinister and conniving in a way that it just sits on your tongue. Benedict and Beatrice, while they're like sassy and pernicious. Actually, as you read through the story, you see that these are old lovers who have lost belief in themselves, who have lost belief in their ability to love other people, and then definitely not love this person in front of you. But what do they do? instead of having this? Polite, choked conversation. Beatrice is looking at him dead in his eye and saying, what does she say to him? At one point at the party, she says something to the effect of, she's like, he thinks he's so clever, but really he's just opening himself up, for people to just make fun of him even more deeply. Which she knows is his greatest fear is to be the fool, right? So larger than life characters that I think are rooted as you are mentioning, Micah, in in real tangible human emotion that he just blows up to the nth degree.

Laurel Thomas 18:10

I like the fact that they're different. Those characters are different because Hero is unapologetically a sweet little quiet woman. And Claudio is unapologetically. handsome, young man man who falls in love with Hero in one glance, so they are like that contrast. They're like that reverse image of Beatrice and, and Benedict,

Melissa Grace 18:35

I just see Hero and Claudio as like the canvas. They're like the background that enables Beatrice and Benedicts story. But when it comes to literary elements, I agree with Micah and Laurel. Just Shakespeare's voice. I mean, he literally coined phrases. He literally made up words We still use. I saw this play was basically like the 40-year-old Virgin movie being canonized in some, historical, best literature ever. Even though it did appeal to that audience the way that like body comedies appeal to us. You know, like the Hangover and the animal house, but you know, those aren't gonna be remembered forever. But this will be just because of how elevated the language is, how excellent his voice is, how he has Beatrice and Benedict say. How many ways can I say I hate you? Let's, you know, let me just, I love that. Let me just,

Laurel Thomas 19:43

Let me count the ways,

Melissa Grace 19:44

let me count the ways. He was a wordsmith beyond any that we've had since.

Kat Lewis 19:49

Well, ladies, what social commentary do you think has transcended the life of this novel? And I think that's a fun question because this novel could come across as sexist. It could come across as anti relationship. There's a lot happening but, I do wonder if there are nuggets of truth that Shakespeare wanted to leave the generations. What do you think those nuggets are?

Laurel Thomas 20:10

Oh, it's, that's so easy. All you to do is be on social media. And think, you know, you have one opinion of a person and they're loud and they're, you know, carrying on. This is tirade politically or whatever, and, and yet who is hearing that? And if they're hearing it, how are they perceiving it? It, you know, there's just so much that is like surface level on social media that is misunderstood. This play is so timeless about human communication. Why isn't the relationships fail? Well, because there's a lot of relational confusion and assumptions that are not accurate.

Micah Leydorf 20:55

I find it so interesting, Laurel, that that is your takeaway from this because just like you brought up with the title, I can see that, that you said it but I never, ever would have taken that away. I think that's what's, maybe that's why there's so many layers and things, because what I took away was much more like the community element. Like Benedict and Beatrice left to their own devices are not getting together. True, right? True. They are gonna let their pride, they're going to let their self protection, keep them from happiness. They're gonna be bitter and alone. And it's their friends who are like, no, we want better for you. We can see that this is an honorable person and this is an worthy suitor and you guys need our help to come together. I almost use the quote at the end, equally obvious with my beginning, you know, men or deceivers ever. But then at the end, whenever Benedict says to the Prince,"Are you sad? You look sad. Get the, a wife" right before they all dance. Oh. And it's like, you know, and it's like, get the, like, it's like this, this. Institution of marriage like love, like this is what it's all worth. And we needed our friends to help us to get there. And so that's what I, I saw that universal as of community and how I love that.

Kat Lewis 22:12

I think both of those points are powerful. I think that they're relevant, you know, in a post COVID society when we're trying to rebuild community in a way that is sustainable, but also a way that's authentic. I think that you, I will say, Micah, to your point, I do think that you have to be brave enough to invite people and humble enough to be able to look somebody else in the eye and say, you were right, because Beatrice and Benedict would never have stayed together. Once they realized all the, all the nonsense their friends kind of enacted to get them together, if they didn't have the humility to say, you were right, and I would not have been able to see this person for what they really are without your help. Their pride and their independence and their demands for, you were disingenuine in this one moment, so I'm just gonna totally cancel you. It would've prevented them from really engaging in something that was healing for them.

Micah Leydorf 23:06

And, you know, and that, again, kind of marrying the two points with like saying like that how, you know, the misunderstandings again, that's another reason why I feel like that we need community. And what we are so lacking in is the way dating is done now. Um, you know, with these online, like you literally don't know. You do not have the tools or the information to be able to tell what is real and what is not. Who is a deceiver and who isn't. This is why we had community. So people be like, oh no, he's a good guy. He's a good girl. Like, you need, like before that, when you knew, oh no, I know their family, I know where they live. But we don't have that anymore. And so it makes it like, how can we trust, how can we know?

Kat Lewis 23:47

But my takeaway from a social commentary perspective is, I think it's so interesting. That no one suspects Don John at all of deception.

Melissa Grace 23:57

Oh, that's interesting.

Kat Lewis 23:58

Even though he's the character with the worst reputation, with the worst attitude that everybody's automatically kind of tap dancing around. Don John is the one who brings the immediate accusal, oh, Claudio, let me show you something. It'll break your heart. Nobody suspects him at all, and I do think that that it, it should just make you always ask the question, who benefits from the narrative? Ew. And if you're okay with the answer to that, great. At least you're walking in that narrative eyes wide open. I do think that there's a lot of situations where we, we forget to ask who's really benefiting from the narrative of tension, of conflict, of injustice, of victim mentality, you know? It allows you to, ask better questions of yourself and the people across from you.

Melissa Grace 24:45

I'm just always continually amazed that these writers You know, back 150 years ago, I mean, I have my Save The Cat book and I am looking,

Micah Leydorf 24:54

well, you've got a word processor

Melissa Grace 24:56

and I've got a word processor and I've got all these wonderful people telling me how to write a novel and where did she get it? I mean, you know, how did she figure it out?

Laurel Thomas 25:06

They were very literary. I mean, I think our, in our culture, there's been this bias that, you know, that we have a handle on all things worldly and literary and, uh, no. All you have to do is read Charles Dickens and they were with literary friends. It was their world.

Micah Leydorf 25:26

I was even thinking as I was driving over here to record this podcast with you all. Again, we've said before that we originally met as a fiction critique group. I was thinking about how much You guys have been part of my personal journey, and I feel like, oh, I couldn't be where I was if I didn't have these friends to help me. But that's what their whole world was. Like I say, they lived in this little commune, basically, in Massachusetts. So their world was like a fiction critique group. When you think about like the Bronte sisters, oh my gosh, they were so prolific. And they literally walked around their living room for exercise every day. Like no interaction with the outside world, but they had each other and they had all the books. Right? You know, we talked about Screw Tape Letters and the inklings. That's part of probably why you had all of this coming out with the Lord of the Rings and C. S. Lewis and so there's a lot to be said for surrounding yourself with others who are similarly minded.

Laurel Thomas 26:26

And I miss that.

Kat Lewis 26:28

That's so good. That's so good. Well, you guys, thank you for being a part of our little writing community and forcing us to be better so we can bring these things to you guys. Feel free to touch base with us next month for our next episode. Hang out with us on Instagram until then, and we will see you guys in just a little bit.

Micah Leydorf 26:48

Bye.

Laurel Thomas 26:49

Bye.

Melissa Grace 26:49

Bye.